Ok plans have changed, C2C on Tuesday Dec. 30th

[stobbart]

I know I was saying that I was going to wait till the summer to do this and was going to just go from tram to summit in late Jan or early Feb, but this hike has been itching me for some reason. So me and about 4 or 5 friends will be doing a cactus to clouds trial on Dec 30th. Hopefully it will not be to icy and dangerous for us since this will be the first time for all of us doing this hike. Were planning on being at the museum around 3am.

Also can someone give me information on how to arrange this by car. If we are coming down from the shuttle will the parking lot be open to leave a car there that early or how have people arranged this in the past? Thank you. Also, I know I am new to this forum but I open the day and hike to anyone that would like to join us.

[Hikin_Jim]

If it hasn't recently snowed a decent amount when Dec 30th rolls around, the conditions most likely will be seriously icy. This is a pretty dangerous route. A professional guide with an ice axe and crampons died on the route a few years ago ('04). Last winter, a marine from 29 Palms fell 800 feet after slipping on ice. By some miracle of God, he wasn't killed.

For your first time on the "trail," you might consider a) only going to the tram (instead of all the way to the peak) and, more importantly, b) doing it in clear, dry (no snow, no ice) conditions. The "trail" is indistinct in places, there are a lot of false trails, and people commonly get disoriented. Get familiar with the "trail" in good conditions for your first time, and perhaps then try it in tougher conditons.

Now if you're an experienced winter traveller with lots of time under your belt using an ice axe and crampons and navigation in snow country is second nature to you, then perhaps what I'm saying doesn't completely apply, but do be careful.

If you do decide to go for your first time in decent conditions, you may not want to wait until summer. It gets so hot, 110+ isn't unusual, that heat exhaustion becomes a very real possibility. April would probably be a good month. The days will be longer, the temparatures more moderate, and (depending on whether we have a wet winter or a dry winter) the snow will likely be gone or at least not an impediment to travel.

By the way, I completely understand about the "itch." I sprained my left knee about three weeks ago. There's fresh snow on the mountains right now. My skis are in the closet whining like a puppy dog when you're about to leave and you're not taking him. Believe me, I know what the "itch" feels like. Just don't let the "itch" cloud your judgement.

Peace bro' and happy trails.

P.S. Perry, who runs this site has a lot of helpful info on the route at http://www.geocities.com/cactus2clouds/skyline.html

[Cy Kaicener]

As of today Dec 20, the snow on Skyline starts at 2800 feet. After this there will be no trail to follow as it will be covered up. For a first timer this will be a real challenge even with GPS tracking. More snow is expected next week.
There is four feet of snow at Long Valley today. A friend of mine went half way yesterday and said he had a hard time. He had snow shoes with spikes and other gear. Please excuse me if you are an experienced alpinist.
Kathy took the tram up today and can fill you in on conditions above Long Valley. You can also call 760 327 0222 for a recorded message by the ranger (this line is often busy.

[stobbart]

thanks for the info and the concern. I have done snow hiking in the Swiss Alps and even did ice climbing on a glacier, that was simply amazing. I have spent weeks in the Sierras and have done many peaks and long day hiks like half dome. and have hiked both the subway and narrows at Zion and a bottom to top grand canyon. Aside from my time in the Alps this will be my first real snow hike.

The people I am going with are not as seasoned as me and will be my good conscious to turn back if conditions get to unsavory. All I can hope for today is that weather eases up a bit and some decent conditions the day of.

If weather worses and that day is absolutly volatile I will call off the trip. If anyone can give me a link or a more detailed explanation of trail headings to take that would appreciative. Or anyone with a desire for adventure that would want to come along with us?

Anyways, I will keep this board posted on what I am doing for safety sake.

And if weather forces us back you can be sure I will head up the first chance I can get in the spring.

[marmot]

As of december 20th, there is still over one and a half feet of snow at 4100 feet in the high desert.

Based on what Cy said, i imagine that there would be a good amount of snow above 2800' and a substantially amount >1 foot over 4000'.

[Perry]

The problem with the turn-around option is that your friends will likely be comfortable with everything until about 7,800 feet (beginning of traverse) or 8,000 feet (beginning of steep climb). That's a lot of back-tracking to return to Palm Springs at 500 feet elevation.

Your friends will need to be able to self-arrest holding their left hand on the head of the axe and right hand on the shaft because the traverse is to the right. The climb would probably be doable on the 30th without too much new snow, but if you sink in then you want to be comfortable using a shortened pole in one hand and an ice axe in the other hand, and being able to let go of the pole and grab the ice axe if you slip backwards. It's better to turn the axe with your wrist instead of bringing your other hand over and tripping yourself with the pole attached to your other wrist.

If it were me, I would be very careful about who I invite. Skyline is totally different now than it was a week ago.

[halhiker]

thanks for the info and the concern. I have done snow hiking in the Swiss Alps and even did ice climbing on a glacier, that was simply amazing. I have spent weeks in the Sierras and have done many peaks and long day hiks like half dome. and have hiked both the subway and narrows at Zion and a bottom to top grand canyon. Aside from my time in the Alps this will be my first real snow hike.

The people I am going with are not as seasoned as me and will be my good conscious to turn back if conditions get to unsavory. All I can hope for today is that weather eases up a bit and some decent conditions the day of.

If weather worses and that day is absolutly volatile I will call off the trip. If anyone can give me a link or a more detailed explanation of trail headings to take that would appreciative. Or anyone with a desire for adventure that would want to come along with us?

Anyways, I will keep this board posted on what I am doing for safety sake.

And if weather forces us back you can be sure I will head up the first chance I can get in the spring.

I would suggest that you take a scout trip and examine the top from the Tram before embarking on a bottom up adventure. Saying you'll turn back is a lot easier than actually doing it. It's far too tempting to "go for it" when you're only thirty minutes from finishing rather than turn back a hike down when you're already tired.

[Hikin_Jim]

If it were me, I would be very careful about who I invite.

You might take your guys out before the hike and see if they really know how to self arrest. A lot of people use the "bowl" above the Ski Hut on Mt. Baldy for practice. That way, you can see if they're really good to go. Even if they've got some solid experience with an ice axe, it's important to practice. It needs to be a reflex. This video has some good info: http://www.hillwalkscotland.com/2007/02 ... ce_ax.html If one of your guys can't arrest well, you'd probably need to tell him he can't go.

Hal's suggestion of a scouting trip first is a smart idea. There's nothing like seeing the route itself in assessing whether it's a "go" or a "no go".

When you're done, post some pics. Hope you guys have a good trip. It's really beautiful up there in the snow right now.

Have fun and stay safe!

[KathyW]

Take your friends up Baldy in the snow first and see how they do.

[stobbart]

The Baldy idea is a good one and if we all can get together beforehand for that I will definatly do that. And thanks Jim for the encouragement and reminding me to take some pics I figured all I would get was warnings but every serious hiker should know that they need to test their limits one day and can never be swayed (unless, like I said from terrible weather). I will surely take and post pics from the day.

I am so excited and am just counting down the days till the 30th. Hey wait? Im thinking ill probably be the last person up skyline in 2008...ill take it.