TRASHY PEOPLE AND HOW I HATE THEM

[cynthia23]

What is UP with the A-holes who are leaving their leavings all over our beautiful mountain, especially Skyline? In recent months I have variously spotted: dozens of discarded plastic water bottles. A pile of empty gu packets (like, thirty) at 4,500 feet. Wads of toilet paper and sanitary napkins (ugh!) And a bunch more garbage I won't bore you with. But the worst are all these plastic bottles. Hello, newsflash, THEY DON'T DEGRADE! This is the desert, if you leave it sitting there, there it's going to sit! For the next freaking fifty years!

Here's the word from the street: if I see anybody discarding their trash anywhere but the inside of their packs, I'm gonna bust his or her chops. Uh oh, somebody else is here reading this (you all know who He is) (no, not God) and He tells me to say, instead, "I'm going to report you." Right. If I catch you, I'm "going to report you."

Last word: Skyline is the wilderness, Ultra-people, NOT your private stairmaster!!! I don't care if it adds thirty seconds onto your time to carry an extra half ounce of plastic! Pack it in, pack it out! OR ELSE!!!

This is your first, last, and only warning ....

[Vadosian]

My feelings exactly!

I once caught a guy enroute to Round Valley just casually tossing gum and candy bar wrappers on the trail, and consequently, I almost started a fight because, of course, he became defensive. But fortunately, he picked up his droppings after I threatened to report him to the Ranger.

I'm also a caver, and have the same reaction when I find garbage at the bottom of a beautiful cave - I become enraged as well. We are on the same wavelength!

I appreciate your passion Cynthia!

Jim

[marmot]

"The same kind of mind-set morons even break off cave formations and try to sell them on eBay!!!"

careful about giving away ideas.

i agree, though, i hate it when ppl litter the mountains.

[Vadosian]

Point well taken Marmot! This was a topic of concern with my caving organization. We are always watching for people violating wild places protected by law.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/artifacts.html

While I was also talking conservation on this thread, I apologize for going off on a tangent away from what Cynthia was talking about.

Jim

[bcox]

I agree with you about the garbage but what is the slam on "Ultra-people" all about?

How is moving "fast and light" through the wilderness while adhering to Leave No Trace principles any worse than taking a longer time to cover the same distance? The problem, in my opinion at least, is the attitude of the people who litter, not the time it takes them to go up Skyline or any other trail for that matter.

BCox

[zippetydude]

Wow, that's a pretty ferocious posting there.

Is this the same Cynthia who was so kind as to help me find my way when I kept getting lost on my first Skyline adventure? If so, like bcox mentioned above, I trust you don't think it was automatically an ultra runner! Most typically, marathon runners become accustomed to dropping cups, used gel packs, etc. during a marathon in the interest of maintaining absolute speed. They're still good people, they just have to pay higher entry fees to cover the cost of clean up. Ultra runners are not particularly interested in speed, they're usually more focused on where they are running. A good rule of thumb:

"Marathoners are out there so they can run, ultra runners are running so they can be out there."

I was just up Skyline last Saturday, but I didn't see all the litter you spoke of. If someone, perhaps you, had cleared the trail on your way up, thank you.

I always carry out everything I carry in, and I try to remove an extra piece of trash or two that I find along the way as well, even though I am an unrepentant ultra runner

I only know of a couple of other runners who do Skyline. Perry, of course, is one, but the only thing I've heard of him leaving on the trail is his wallet. This is not usually an item that remains on the trail very long. The other is bcox. I'm running the PCT with him this weekend up to the peak, then back down to the tram. I'll keep a close eye on him.

But seriously, I do agree with you that it's absolutely incredible that someone can go up a clean, beautiful trail and have no problem with dropping their trash everywhere. Especially Skyline, which takes quite a bit of effort, so you would think that only experienced (and therefore hopefully environmentally aware) hikers would be going up in the first place. Ahhh. I think I see why you were thinking it might be some ultra runner? Able to do the climb, but not necessarily respectful of the wilderness?

Well, ultra runner or hiker, the person should be easy to spot. I usually consume about 3 gels on my way up Skyline. If the person ate 30 gels and discarded the wrappers, we are definitely looking for a really fit 400 lb person. After I post, I'll check Google Earth. I should be able to spot them.

I doubt that the people who are littering will read this, so to all of you who help to keep the trail as beautiful as it is, thank you.

Cynthia - I appreciate your fire and your passion for the wilderness.

z

[Cy Kaicener]

Welcome to the forum Cynthia. You are absolutely right about the litter. If only a small percentage of the hikers picked up the trash we would not have that problem. Lets bring along an extra supermarket sized plastic bag and take it with us to Long Valley. There are lots of trash cans there.

[guest]

I agree Cynthia,
I have been seeing Way more trash on the trail,plus, whoever the yahoo that thought it necassary to spray paint many areas of the trail!
Come on, if you can't find you way, please stay off.

Being as it may, with this message board, the C to C site, any much word of mouth, insensitive people follow.

I like what many of you say about attempting to "police" the trail, helping to see that people act responsible.
Re. the State Park, as many of you know, they don't recognize Skyline as a trail, which I feel is a good thing,(if the Gov gets to involved, you can bet rules, bounderies & possible restrictions can follw) so even though much of the trail is in their jurisdiction, it may be better let for trails above Long Valley.

Here's to a magical trail & journey, let's all work to keep it that way.

ss

[Yichus]

I also agree with Cynthia, who, obviously, is passionate about the trail and the outdoors. Cy and I started a thread on the ODC message board about this problem last year after having noticed--I kid you not--a Popeye wading pool near the last section of Skyline. I assume someone tried to use it as an improvised sled during the winter and then discarded it...

I really hate picking up after thoughtless others, but it's something we--those of us who value a pristine, litter-free trail--must do. I usually carry a plastic Target or Henry's bag with me to hold litter I find on trails, and, like others, I've seen people discard trash in front me--a sight that really angers me. I once politely confronted a group of teen punks on the trail to the waterfall in Forest Falls. They left behind a trail of Arizona Tea cans--you know, those large, obnoxious 40 ouncers. I asked one of the guys in the group---he was a big guy, with tatoos, and had a AZ Tea can in his hand--if he knew anything about the cans on the trail. He instantly became defensive and belligerent, saying, "it wasn't us" and "mind your own fuc---- business." I then took out my digital camera and took several photos of the litter, to give the impression that I was going to report them. Well, this action pissed off the group, and they, predictably, slung expletives at me. But, long story short, they did pick up the cans!

I will have my bag with me on Saturday...

Rob

[Cy Kaicener]

Rob - I did not find the post on Outdoorsclub, but this one posted recently caught my eye
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/forum/displ ... Position=1