Cornell Peak

[Perry]

I never completely understood why that area is closed. If it's a fawning area, then theoretically the mother does could attack people. As far as increased foot traffic, I don't think there is a major attraction, besides getting away from people. In the summer, I prefer the main trail because the Round Valley meadow is nicer, the view from Wellman's is really nice, and there's no chinquapin or buckthorn bushes to deal with.

[halhiker]

I have used this route for over twenty years and have NEVER seen a deer on it. I've seen tons of deer on the high trail, a few on the main trail, I startled a huge buck crossing from the high trail into the Willow Creek area near the Wellman Cabin but only mammals I've ever seen on this route are squirrels and coyotes. Personally, I think they decided to let the trail up from Tamarack (which I've always known as the "Ranger Trail") go into disrepair because they didn't need it. The route up SD Canyon was never a maintained trail.

Personally, I prefer traveling off trail most of the time. You see more of the mountain and a lot fewer people.

[zippetydude]

HJ: I thought it was a troll too. Kinda grouchy. Probably just needs more time on the trail.

halhiker: My experience closely mirrors yours - I have seen bears, cougars, bobcats, coyotes, deer, even a llama, on the trails in the San G and San J wilderness. When I go off trail into quieter areas, I have yet to see anything bigger than a squirrel. I'm convinced that wildlife enjoy the convenience of a well-maintained trail, just like the rest of us. Can't blame 'em.

z

[Perry]

A llama?

One less trail is less trail maintenance. I think somebody is afraid to use a 2-man saw. That fallen tree above Wellman's is probably going to stay that way for awhile...

[KathyW]

Personally, I prefer traveling off trail most of the time. You see more of the mountain and a lot fewer people.

I like off trail travel too because I don't enjoy crowded trails. I'd like to know where to find the rule that says travel off trails or in certain areas is not permitted in the State Park. Does anyone know where that rule/regulation is posted?

[AlanK]

Has anyone actually mentioned a closure rule. Abandoning a maintained trail in order to reduce traffic is not the same as banning people from entering the area. My impression is that "Another Guest" would prefer that people not talk about certain areas but that is just one person's opinion.

[KathyW]

I thought it was an issue because it was a closed area, but if that's not the case then maybe it's just guest's opinion that the area shouldn't be mentioned? Everyone has a right ot their opinion.

[AlanK]

First Skyline now Sid Davis/Old Trail.......you people just don't get it. The "Old Trail" was abandoned to allow habitat away from people traffic for the deer on the mountain. But then nothing seems to be more important to this board than to get someone to listen to them, no matter the impact!

I took the "abandoned" remark to mean that the trial is not maintained. That sounds different from closing an area to entry.

Frankly, I agree with people who found the post offensive because of the unnecessary slap at the members of this board. The poster could make his point without resorting to that. Also, protecting habitat can be a noble cause, but I agree with those who find it laughable that deer are somehow endangered by hikers. If that were true, my neighborhood would not be overrun by deer. The original post made little sense, other than as an attack on people who enjoy the San Jacintos and like to talk about it here.

[Perry]

I think "Another Guest" was expressing a genuine opinion rather than creating a devil's advocate argument just for the sake of controversy (a.k.a. trolling). When making an evaluation it helps if a person identifies his/her self instead of posting anonymously.

I don't know the legal status of that area. But if it's really important that people not go there, it seems silly to rely on silence and ambiguity, rather than just closing the area and enforcing it. Even without 100% enforcement (due to lack of resources), I think many hikers would respect these issues if the State Park said it's closed because of such-and-such. It would also be considered inappropriate to post photos and trip reports on message boards. There is another area that is obviously a foot-traffic issue, and we respect that here on this forum.

Here's a bigger issue: all the trash in Long Valley that appears during the springtime melt-out. I think there should be a big sign that says "Littering: $500 Fine" (or whatever the amount is) and then the rangers start citing people or making them pick it up if they want to avoid the fine. But that won't happen because it's not tourist-friendly and may slightly hurt the Palm Springs economy by offending people.

Regarding Skyline and bighorn sheep, even BLM admits that the evidence against hikers is weak:
http://www.blm.gov/ca/pdfs/palmsprings_ ... of_Sci.pdf

In addition, Hamilton et al. (1982) found that sheep avoided using areas while
humans were present but were not permanently displaced by hikers. Bighorn behavior was
modified to avoid human interactions at salt licks or waterholes, visiting each earlier or later in
the day when humans were not present (Campbell and Remington 1981, Hamilton et al. 1982).

Skyline is also known for *not* having water.

The real issues are land development, oleander in people's yards, and vehicle traffic. Hikers are really just the "scapegoat," and a distraction from other issues that are tied to business interests. Common sense says that if the Cahuilla Indians walked all over this mountain and hunted the bighorn for food....yet the population thrived prior to Europeans showing up....then something else must be more significant than the effects of hiking. Blaming hikers seems like a political tactic. After all, many Sierra Club members like to hike, and nobody wants to appear hypocritical, right?

Here's a better solution: set up cameras and fine reckless drivers on Highway 74. The problem: fast driving is a part of Southern California culture. Or make people fence their Oleander if it's exposed to the open desert. Or...god forbid...stop developing more land and build taller buildings instead. Or if people stopped having so many children, a lot of issues would be solved. But then, that's not very PC to talk about.

[AlanK]

Perry -- good comments.

I was not saying that "another guest" is a troll. I usually wait for a pattern to emerge before deciding on that. This person certainly has a right to his opinions, and he may even have perfectly reasonable ones. I just think there are better ways to express them. Also, what he did post has some weaknesses, and people have picked them apart.