Entering an area that requires a permit

[FIGHT ON]

When is it ok to enter an area when you don't have one? And the word "feasible" can't be used.

[AlanK]

I believe that people should obey thr rules and get permits where they are required. However, permits for back country areas are handled inconsistently. It is often difficult for a new visitor to know that a permit is even required for a particular area. One can easily be in the middle of nowhere, having hiked miles towards a destination on public land, only to be informed by a sign that a permit is required. In other cases, one can show up at a ranger station only to find it closed, with no self-issue permits available.

For the Cucamonga Wilderness, I need to show up at the Baldy Ranger Statin when it is open. There are no self-issue permits. The need for permits is a well-kept secret that must be ferreted out by those in the know. For the Sheep Mountain Wilderness, permits are self-issue but are often unavailable. for the San Gabriel Wilderness... I don't think they even have permits. For the San Gorgonio Wilderness, one can get a form on-line and fax it in (yes, someone still uses fax!), but self-issue permits are sometimes possible, Etc.

The authorities have a responsibility to do better than that. The need for permits should be well-publicized. Permits should be easy to get. Handling should be consistent. On-line applications should be the rule. Etc.

The idea is to give people access to the Wilderness while preserving the Wilderness by limiting access. The idea is not to entrap people or to start Message Board battles over who''s good and who's bad.

[halhiker]

It is OK to enter an area without a permit any time you are willing to pay a fine.

When the National Parks were closed due to some standoff in Washington between Clinton and the GOP controlled Congress I went hiking in Joshua Tree in the southern end near Chiracho Summit. If I'd have gotten caught I'd have paid a fine. Or, I would have been assessed a fine; I don't know if I'd have paid it.

Anyone climbing Snow Creek is doing so without a permit. You have to trespass to do it and if the conditions were right, I'd do it tomorrow.

Here's a question for you.

"Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once?" Thoreau