Camping rules?

[Norris]

I am thinking of taking my son and one of his friends up San Jacinto, but it will need to be a multi-day trip so that the kids don't have a bad experience due to the altitude and hiking distance. But I am having trouble figuring out a plan that combines short hiking distances and daily elevation gains that are not excessive. Question: is camping strictly limited to Round Valley, Little Round Valley, and Tamarack Valley? Is it illegal to just establish a camp off-trail somewhere? Using Little Round Valley is tough because one would have to hike a long distance to get there from Idyllwild or tackle the very steep Marion mountain trail, and using Round Valley after going up the tram makes for a pretty high sleeping elevation for the first night. There is no camping allowed in / near Long valley as I understand it. Suggestions?

[asabat]

I am thinking of taking my son and one of his friends up San Jacinto, but it will need to be a multi-day trip so that the kids don't have a bad experience due to the altitude and hiking distance. But I am having trouble figuring out a plan that combines short hiking distances and daily elevation gains that are not excessive. Question: is camping strictly limited to Round Valley, Little Round Valley, and Tamarack Valley? Is it illegal to just establish a camp off-trail somewhere? Using Little Round Valley is tough because one would have to hike a long distance to get there from Idyllwild or tackle the very steep Marion mountain trail, and using Round Valley after going up the tram makes for a pretty high sleeping elevation for the first night. There is no camping allowed in / near Long valley as I understand it. Suggestions?

In the state park, yes, camping is limited to the designated camp sites you mentioned, plus Strawberry Junction just off the Deer Springs Trail. In the USFS wilderness camping is less restrictive (but farther from the summit).

[halhiker]

If you are considering going to San Jacinto and don't want to do the long hike to Little Round Valley your best bet is to take the Tram and spend the night at Round or Tamarack Valley. On such a short trip altitude sickness should be minimal even sleeping at 9,100 ft for one night.

The effects of altitude generally not immediate at these elevations other than shortness of breath and maybe a little headache (take some Tylenol). One problem people have is thinking that sleeping one night at an intermediate elevation will help them when in fact it is generally detrimental. It takes a few days to really acclimatize and it's just not possible on a short trip.

If you're lucky the elevation won't make a difference at all. I've done the mountain more times than I can count and altitude has never been a concern. In fact, I seem to breathe better up there. Maybe it's the clean mountain air. Or good mountain man genes.

[Ken7]

If you have several days, you might camp the first night in Idyllwild at the County Park. There are trails for the kids to explore there, pictographs, bedrock mortars, the Nature Center, and a creek - at about 5500 feet. Then drive up to Humber Park and hike the Devil's Slide Trail (which begins at 6400 feet) and camp near the Saddle Junction (8100 feet,) perhaps in the Skunk Cabbage area. There is much the kids can explore there too, and water in Candi's Creek - all at about 8000 feet. The next day would be a longer hike, but less elevation gain, taking Willow Creek Trail to Hidden Lake and then the crossover trail to Round Valley. From there you could go to San Jacinto peak the next day and return to your camp in Round Valley. On the way back you could camp near Law's Junction or Reed's Meadow - lots of water and beauty around there - at about 7400 feet. Then finish the trip going back up to the Saddle Junction and down the Devil's Slide Trail.

[Norris]

Thanks for the suggestions. It's too bad that camping is not allowed in Long Valley. Re tram and first night at Round Valley, I'm a bit leery of that because kids don't tolerate altitude as well as adults do, and it seems a bit high for first night sleeping elevation when the previous night was at sea level (San Diego). On the other hand, trips starting in Idyllwild will require many more days and hiking miles. Hmmm.

[halhiker]

Camping in Long Valley would not be much different than camping in Round Valley. There is only an elevation difference of 700 feet. If you're concerned about elevation sickness and the kids than it's probably best not to sleep at a higher elevation at all and just do a day hike to the peak from the Tram. It's 11.5 not too tough miles.

Spending a night in Idyllwild would be detrimental rather than beneficial because the lowered respiratory rate during sleep at that elevation will hasten elevation sickness the next day rather than reduce it.

As the old climber's saying goes, "Sleep low, climb high".

Since it's getting toward off season in Palm Springs you could get a probably get a hotel at the good rate and the first Tram car up is at 8 a.m. on weekends.

[juguetico]

Hey Norris, you are on the right track. The important thing is to share with your kids this journey. As you hike up the mountain pointing out things of interest and telling stories of your one first journey, teach them the respect that the wild deserves. There will always be those that wont like the mountain even if they don't get (altitude) sick. They will always remember the experience and perhaps do the same trip with their children.

[Ken7]

If the elevation and distances make the trip to San Jacinto unattractive right now, an alternative might be to camp in Idyllwild and hike to Tahquitz Peak or to Suicide Rock during the day. In addition, at the Idyllwild campground it is possible to hike several miles in the forest above and around the campground and several places on the hillside above the campground have good views. This area was once a boy scout camp and exploring it myself I imagine that they had great times. The forest there includes a meadow, creeks, pictographs, bedrock mortars, a summit, and the Nature Center.

[KathyW]

Spending a night in Idyllwild would be detrimental rather than beneficial because the lowered respiratory rate during sleep at that elevation will hasten elevation sickness the next day rather than reduce it.

As the old climber's saying goes, "Sleep low, climb high".

I'm in agreement on that one - there's no sense waking up with altitude sickness when you can avoid it by sleeping low. I used to think that sleeping up high at a trailhead was a good idea the night before a hike in the Sierra, but I woke up with altitude sickness enough times that I know it's not such a good idea anymore.

[Hikin_Jim]

Interesting. I've heard so many different things. I know atheletes will "sleep high and train low" to improve performance -- the opposite of the old adage "climb high and sleep low." I Googled around a bit but didn't find anything definitive. Anyone got something solid on sleeping high the night before. I suspect it doesn't help as I think about it.

I've often driven up the night before a hike (typically a backpack) to try to gain some advantage in terms of acclimatization, and I know others who have done the same thing, but perhaps I should have just driven straight there. I guess it really doesn't make much difference (sleeping at the trailhead) in terms of acclimatization, although perhaps on a longer trip (greater than a week) it might make some difference toward the end of the trip.

I may still sleep at trail heads though, just to get an early start.

HJ