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Postby HikeUp » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:12 pm

The one gel I tried was awful. I could see carrying it for an emergency though...like gluing the sole of my boot back on. :D
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Postby FIGHT ON » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:13 pm

To those who do, What would be the difference in your hike if you did not take the energy bars, gells, sports drinks? Does it simply make you less hungry or does it make you hike faster or both?
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Postby FIGHT ON » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:20 pm

Yeah HikeUp, I bought one of the gels last march just in case of an emergency and never used it. About two months ago I could not fully open one of my pack pockets cuz it broke open and leaked out. It was like hot glue. I thought it messed up my pack. I tried just plain water on a washcloth and it dissolved it pretty fast. What does it do when you eat it? Make you hyper?
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Postby Ellen » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:33 am

Howdy All :D

I apply the nutrition recommendations for endurance and ultraendurance sports to hiking. Research indicates that consuming carbohydrate before and during endurance exercise improves performance -- the athlete can maintain high intensity exercise longer and/or sprint harder at the end.

General observations on research findings with endurance athletes:
1) Liver glycogen (source of blood glucose) is nearly exhausted after an overnight fast. Taking in a carbohydrate-rich meal or snack before an early morning hike helps to prevent hypoglycemia (bonking) on a hike lasting over several hours.

For people who have difficulty eating before an early morning hike (myself for example), a semi-liquid meal such as oatmeal, yogurt or an instant breakfast drink is tolerated better than soilds. I eat a carton of yogurt an hour before hiking.

2) Consuming carbohydrate during exercise supplies energy for the muscles when they're running low on glycogen. From a performance standpoint, there's no difference between liquid (sports drinks, gels) and solid carbohydrate (energy bars, food). Consuming 30 to 60 grams of carbohydrate each hour (120 to 240 calories) improves performance (helps you maintain your hiking pace longer).

Between my one gel an hour and Gatorade, I'm consuming 30 to 60 grams per hour.

Individual tolerance and preference determines what you can eat. While climbing, my gut can only handle gels and a sports drink. Hard or chewable candy works well instead of gels for many people. I've hiked with people (usually large guys) who can scarf down pretty much anything without experiencing gut distress.

The greater the exercise intensity, the lower the ability to absorb calories as blood is diverted from the gut to the muscles.

High fat foods (nuts, cheese, meat) delay stomach emptying and are more likely to cause gut distress. However, protein and fat also provide satiety. I recommend experimenting with different foods while hiking to find out what you can tolerate and enjoy. Most people find they experience taste fatigue on very long hikes, so it helps to have different foods.

The length of the hike. temperature, and pace also affect what you can tolerate and enjoy. As Tomcat pointed out, I recommend not trying any new fluid or food when you're attempting a major climb such as the full C2C.

3) The only way to really know how much to drink is to determine your sweat rate range in different environmental conditions. On Skyline, closely matching fluid intake with fluid loss is necessary to prevent heat illness as well as maintain performance.

Whether you use water or a sports drink is a matter of personal preference. If you carry water, you want to also have a source of sodium such as salty snacks, salt tablets, or higher sodium carbohydate gels. I find sports drinks convenient because they supply water, carbohydate, and sodium.

4) Consuming sodium helps to prevent heat cramps and hyponatremia (low blood sodium) during long, hot hikes. On average, people lose 800 mg of sodium per quart (2 lb) of sweat.

Hyponatremia can occur during endurance exercise lasting four hours or more such as triathlons or ultra runs when the person drinks more water than they're losing in sweat. Hyponatremia generally does not occur during hiking -- the exception being hiking the Grand Canyon where people over-drink on the way down.

5) The American College of Sports Medicine notes that atlhough caffeine is a diuretic, it does not contribute to dehydration. Research has shown that consuming 3 to 6 mg of caffeine per kg of body weight can enhance endurance.

Whether or not to use caffeine is entirely individual. I always have coffee in the morning (whether I hike or not). I find that I get a little "lift" from the caffeinated gels. However, if I use one every hour, I get nauseated.

6) I rest and eat a high carbohydrate diet the day before a hard hike such as Skyline, Whitney, or Vivian. This helps to ensure that my muscle glycogen stores are above normal for the hike. When I ran marathons, I ate a high carbohydrate diet and rested for three days prior the marathon to carbohydrate load.

Miles of smiles,
Ellen
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Postby Rick M » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:26 am

Thanks Ellen, this sounds like great info for us rescuers when we get called out. From what you wrote, the biggest problem we might have is not loading up on carbs the evening before since we usually have no clue that we'll be out in the early morning and I know of at least two times I was still digesting greasy meat pizza.

One of our fleet footed people uses those red vines to munch on when he's out and seems to do the trick for him. I usually try to bring some type of assorted hard candy for "snacking" while I'm on the move and raisins and M&Ms when I stop or have more time to chew. I usually keep the salted nuts separate cause I don't care for salt on my raisins or M&Ms and get to savor the individual flavors instead of a mixed blah flavor.

On the way driving to a search is when I start tanking up on liquids and try to include a sugared soft drink with caffeine to wake me up when I arrive.
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Postby AlanK » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:13 pm

Ellen -- I appreciate your contributions on this subject and defer to your knowledge on the subject. However, one point confused me.
Ellen wrote:1) Liver glycogen (source of blood glucose) is nearly exhausted after an overnight fast. Taking in a carbohydrate-rich meal or snack before an early morning hike helps to prevent hypoglycemia (bonking) on a hike lasting over several hours.

As I recall (from about 30 years ago), an average guy has something like 2000 Calories stored in his liver as glycogen. (This obviously works for women too, but the average one is smaller and I don't recall the number.) That corresponds to about 20 miles in a marathon, after which one tends to hit the infamous wall. The same average guy burns around 100 Calories per hour just staying alive over an average day. The energy consumption rate is lower than average during sleep, of course. Does that not mean that an overnight fast results in the loss of less than half of one's liver glycogen? I actually thought the number was smaller than that because one does not burn only glycogen in sedentary activity.

This is consistent with my experience from the old days when I ran more: I have certainly gotten up in the morning (back in the 1970s) and, having eaten nothing (or maybe a banana), cranked out 20 hard miles of running without hitting any walls. I have certainly never eaten enough in the morning to replace completely-depleted glycogen stores.

That said, I certainly agree with your advice: Take in a carbohydrate-rich meal or snack before an early morning hike helps to prevent hypoglycemia (bonking) on a hike lasting over several hours.
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Postby Hikin_Jim » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:19 pm

Wow. Thank you, Ellen; is that ever an answer. You're a very clear and concise writer by the way. Thanks for taking the time to distill the basics down to a very useful one page presentation.

That's very interesting that caffeine is a diuretic but doesn't contribute to dehydration. A diuretic that doesn't contribute to dehydration is pretty counter intuitive to me, but I guess the experts have done their homework. I've heard so many times that caffeine will contribute to dehydration that I've always avoided it, but it actually increases performance. Who knew? (not me obviously :D) I do know that caffeine can help with altitude-related mild headaches.

This is great, Ellen, not only did I find out about caffeine, but I got the larger picture as well.

Thanks!

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Postby FIGHT ON » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:55 pm

You guys, Why do you eat sports drinks, things with caffine in it etc. when you hike? Does it make a difference? I mean what would happen if you didn't eat that stuff and had something else instead? Would you get hungrier or not hike as fast?
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Postby AlanK » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:11 pm

I drink electrolyte replacement drinks because one loses electrolytes like crazy due to sweating, at least on hot days. This is more important the more extreme the hike.

For me, the Whitney Main Trail is less than 8 hours round trip. I can skip electrolytes, energy bars, etc. and subsist on a little gorp, GU, etc. On the other hand, Iron Mountain takes less time but is harder. If I do not drink Cytomax, I get into trouble on the way down. I think it's the heat -- somehow I usually manage to do Iron on a 90+ degree day. For a really hard hike like one of the 9 Peaks ones (Baldy or San Gorgonio areas), I need to take in more and end up using real food, energy bars, GU, and Cytomax in some combination.

I don't notice much difference with or without caffeine. I love coffee and realize that some GU contains caffeine, but I pay little attention and do not notice any difference when I go without either.

By the way, Rick Kent does crazy hard hikes on a thimbleful of water. :lol:
Last edited by AlanK on Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby FIGHT ON » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:27 pm

Thanks Alank. I started to read about these things on line and some say it helps performance and some disagree. I started to take electrolytes because I had a real hard time on one hike because I had diarrhea a few days before. Had no idea that it causes great losses electrolytes and liquids from your body. This was when I did not have a bladder and carried bottles of water where I had to stop and take my pack off to have a drink. I read that sipping little bits of liquid as you go is way better. That your body needs little bits of water as you go instead of a ton when you feel thirsty. I started to drink alot and somebody said "dude you are flushing out all your electrolytes. Don't drink so much". I felt better with drinking all the time so I didn't want to reduce the volume I was taking. I found gookinaid at rei and started to put it in my water thinking I could drink my huge amounts and if I was flushing out the electrolytes, this would replace them. I still can't figure out if what I am doing is necessary. I think Ill just hike one with just plain water and see. When I hike I like to see how long it takes me and see if I can improve my time when I hike the same trail again. Thats when I hike alone. When I hike with others I hike as fast as the slowest person (or try to keep up with the last person.) I hike as a team and don't compete. I would always wonder what my time would be if I hiked one trail without caffeine or those sports drinks and then did it again with it and improved my time. I never drank coffee or ate or drank sports drinks or bars so I don't know for sure what difference in heart rate, performance.etc. What I am trying to get is why, if it doesn't make a difference in your time then why take them? Wouldn't you ask yourself, Hey I beat my time but took a whatever to make me go faster?
Wouldn't you feel better knowing that you had beat your time or made it to the goal with out that stuff. I mean anybody can take that stuff right? I don't know for sure whats in these things so I don't know how they apparently enhance performance or what that means. If they just resupply what you are naturally burning up then it seems ok but if they increase your heart rate more than what it would normally do I would not take them. Somebody has to know what they do. FIGHT ON
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