Snow camping classes?

[mkt]

I want to take snow/winter camping classes this winter. There's at least one outfit that gives you a class or two and then takes the tramway up Mt. San Jacinto to do some actual winter camping. But I can't remember the name, and can't find any listings for winter camping classes. (I even signed up last winter, but the class was cancelled due to lack of snow.)

Does anyone have any suggestions/recommendations for where to go for winter camping lessons?

[phydeux]

Try the Sierra Club / Angeles Chapter's website and see if they still offer their Wilderness Adventures (?) program. It consists of weeknight classes (one night a week at various areas in the So Cal area), and weekend trips that include a few snow camps, rock climbing at Joshua Tree NP, navigation, and snow travel. Its pretty cheap, too. Good introduction if you've never ventured too far afield.

http://angeles.sierraclub.org/wtc/

[dhstein313]

Adventure 16 links to quite a few outifts for classes.

http://www.adventure16.com/outdoorclasses.htm

[hvydrt]

The Outdoors Club has a winter backpacking trip coming up on Presidents day weekend in the San Gorgornio Wilderness. You can look up the details in the calender section.
http://outdoorsclub.org/

[lowclouds]

Not knowing what area you live in it's impossible to know if this makes sense for you but the North County section of the San Diego Sierra Club chapter does their snow camp class on San Jacinto normally.

Here's a link: http://sandiego.sierraclub.org/wbc/nc

You need to take the entire course to go on the snow camp, though, so you'd want to be somewhere near Escondido. The main San Diego chapter snow camp has been at Mammoth for as long as I've been doing it - over 15 years now.

[Ken]

The local Sierra Club's Wilderness Travel Course, which includes snow camping, has already started, I think you've missed this year's version:
http://angeles.sierraclub.org/wtc/

Otherwise your best options are probably a commercial guide service which does this, such as Sierra Mountaineering International
www.sierramountaineering.com

[igloo builder]

It sounds like there are enough knowledgeable people on this site to put on their own snow camping outing. With the advent of the Internet, one really shouldn't need to go to a "physical class". I'm sure many of you have taken "friends" on such outing to introduce them to the winter wonderland. I've been in numerous courses over the years both as participant and as instructor and there should be no reason why a competent person needs to go through a long drawn out course and in some cases, still not know how to deal with the winter environment. When I worked for REI, I used to take out people all the time and have made many life long friends as a result.

[pfinley]

Hey Igloo Builder,

Yes the internet is a valuable tool, and so are friends with experience. However it seems like you could get yourself into serious trouble out there with just some internet know how and friends who know what they are doing. Are your friends qualified to teach, and do they teach you everything or do they just give you a few pointers here and there. Courses seem nice because they show you the fundamentals and you do it all with your own hands. They lay down a good basis for safety and understanding.

[lowclouds]

...With the advent of the Internet, one really shouldn't need to go to a "physical class". ...

You might think so, but it turns out that not everyone is competent at reasonable self-evaluation of their capabilities under stressful situations and some simply aren't good at paying attention or working through verbal descriptions of situations, so they are unprepared mentally and in some cases, physically, for the extremes that winter in the mountains can produce.

The San Diego Sierra Club Wilderness Basics class is designed to expose absolute newcomers to the outdoors to increasingly more demanding situations, so, if you began a 'virtual' class with people who had more experience, then you'd think that you could bypass some of the easier stuff, like car-camping.

On the other hand, those same folks who have neither experience nor good judgement, could produce serious problems for you on an actual outing. You really wouldn't want to show up at the top of the tram with a bunch of folks you didn't know, except through the internet, who regarded you as their guide, unless you have a lot of personal liablility insurance.

For those with solid backcountry experience who simply want to learn winter camping skills, the commercial programs may be the most efficient way to proceed, in lieu of experienced and capable friends.

That said, it's great fun to babble on about how to have fun in the snow.

So, Igloo Builder, have you ever used an IceBox , http://www.grandshelters.com/, to make your igloos, or are you a block sawyer? I sold my IceBox, because I usually do igloos with 6 or more people and with a crew, a couple of saws and two people on the inside is as fast and more fun than two shovelers and a form tool?

[igloo builder]

Years ago I went on a Sierra Club winter climb.
I had to really talk I knew what I was doing to be allowed.
Minimum requirement was Basic Mountaineering Training Course BMTC.
I hadn't had it but had a few years of winter climbs in the Sierra.
I was totally shocked by what the BMTC graduates knew & their skills.
Accident happened on descent and I had to take over to get people down.

My wife and I later took the BMTC course to see what was being taught and we were both disappointed at the content and quality of instruction. This was years ago and the wilderness course has replaced it. I don't believe they do ice axe/crampon instruction. Never had it, could be wrong. We felt same or more instruction could have been gain from the book Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills.

We have taken other classes and been instructors for some.
A problem we saw with classes is once through an introductory class, what does a beginner then do? Are they now at a greater risk because they now think they can go out into the winter environment on their own?

This thread was for snow camping which is another animal.
Today, liability is king and personal responsibility is non existant so I suppose things are different regarding taking strangers with on outings.

I've never used an IceBox but when I lived in Idaho we used Coors beer boxes to form blocks by shoveling snow into them and flipping. Normally I usually saw my blocks.
We have built igloos for 2-12 people with the longest lasting one built near the top of Mt San Antonio in November and last used it in April during a GOOD snow year. I can usually build a two person igloo in 45 minutes and we built a three person igloo on Liberty Ridge on Mt Rainier in the same time it took another group to chop a level place for their winter tent. We left a shelter for others while they had to pack up their 12 lb tent.