Skyline Rescues

General Palm Springs area.

Re: Skyline Rescues

Postby guest » Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:31 am

Thanks Tim, it seems people are Not doing their research, and allow themselves to believe they'll be able to handle it. Until, they get on a steep, hard-ice slope and realize their feet could slide out from under them with any step.

As you mentioned, these rescue folks are risking their lives, (training or not), because many hikers figure "I'll just use my cell phone", and be whisked away to safety. Those SAR's folks have to down-climb some serious terrain and conditions to reach them, and the helo pilot has to hover over tall tress, steep cliffs, usually windy conditions, (not to mention potential for poor visibility). Yes, they are hired, or in RMRU's case, volunteer to do this, but it's still very irresponsible for people to place them in danger because they didn't do even basic research on this climb.

It still begs the question about charging, (a topic discussed here for years), but it makes me wonder if people realize they won't be charged, do they take the potential risk with less real consideration.
I remember a number of years back, SAR's placed a few folks on the last climb of Skyline and at the top, on a busy weekend, to help keep hikers from getting lost, or into a bad situation, but this takes resources and lots of patience, (come to think of it, it may have been during the hotter months they did this).

Makes me wonder if a strongly worded sign at the bottom, (on both Museum tr. & south end of N Lykken, end of Ramon Rd), would do some good, (but it also broadcasts this trail for those not familiar).
I also wonder if after each rescue, a series of questions could be asked, "How to do you hear the trail, What info was given from that source, did you consider turning around, etc.

Be safe out there and enjoy the wilderness, scott
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Re: Skyline Rescues

Postby Ed » Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:33 am

guest wrote:Makes me wonder if a strongly worded sign at the bottom, (on both Museum tr. & south end of N Lykken, end of Ramon Rd), would do some good, (but it also broadcasts this trail for those not familiar).
I also wonder if after each rescue, a series of questions could be asked, "How to do you hear the trail, What info was given from that source, did you consider turning around, etc.

Be safe out there and enjoy the wilderness, scott


I am in favor of the sign. Though there is such a complex set of issues, I would not know how to word it. And I doubt that people who have driven from who-knows-where to do this famous trail are going to be deterred by a sign. A government agency website similar to Perry's might be a good idea. But I have the impression that government agencies are skittish about giving advice, for fear of being sued by someone who says 'I followed all their rules, and still got in trouble.'

I am also in favor of SAR reports that place more emphasis on what caused the situation.

I received an email this morning from a friend and high-school classmate who lives in Plumas County, and is involved in SAR there. He was commenting on the numerous cases they have there of people in the winter driving using cell phone navigation alone, not seeking other information, and ending up having to be rescued, which is now a cost-free entitlement. He has a puckish sense of humor, and referred to SAR as 'interrupting Darwinian natural selection'.
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Re: Skyline Rescues

Postby Ed » Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:37 pm

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Re: Skyline Rescues

Postby Ed » Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:03 am

RMRU's report on the body recovery on Tahquitz:

http://rmru.org/2022/01/31/2022-005/

As usual, no information on what the deceased 'hiker' was equipped with. I place 'hiker' in quotes because I don't consider doing that traverse up to the lookout in the winter 'hiking'.

The report does not say whether the gouging RMRU member James took from his own crampons was from the front points or others. But I would guess the front points. Frankly, I think the aggressive front points found on today's crampons are more likely to rip your pants, gouge your legs, or flip you out of control during a self-arrest than to be useful on an ordinary snow climb. I took a hand file to mine to make them less hazardous.
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Re: Skyline Rescues

Postby Ellen » Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:11 pm

Image
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Re: Skyline Rescues

Postby guest » Sat Feb 05, 2022 1:25 pm

Well, it's not been a good winter in the local mtns. to date, thanks for posted.
What is a mild, fairly flat trail in summer, can become a steeply sloped, snow & ice covered obstacle course, (or worse) in winter.

Ed, I agree about some crampons front points. When I looked at that photo of James on RMRU, I thought, dang, those look like some madmax stuff.
I think it mentioned, he slide and punctured himself, which wouldn't be hard to do. I gashed myself with a "side-point" at the 13k spot of Whitney, (from the Portal), just adjusting my footing.
I also agree that The Traverse on Skyline, (and even above that), is no longer a hike in these conditions, but a technical test of nerves & skill.

Let's hope word spreads, (for those doing their research), that the mtns. aren't a good place to be right now, unless one has a bunch of experience and technical ability. ss
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