Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday [7/27/17]

[Wildhorse]

Re: Chekhov's gun

Yes to Ed's observation. It can be a useful constraint for writing short stories, but is surely not a universal maxim in literature. Chekhov may have been opinionated, a common vice among doctors (like him) and others with advanced degrees and licenses to practice a profession.

I don't own a gun. I fear that Chekhov's maxim applies in life more than in literature.

[cynthia23]

Well, certainly I agree with Sean that you can be dangerously/fatally lost quite close to civilization--many examples of that, sadly. And also agree that it's perfectly possible to die quickly--within hours--of heat stroke. But that doesn't rationally justify murder-suicide--Orbeso's actions made no real sense. If he had the strength to turn the gun on her and himself, then he wasn't at death's door. Had he waited, they might have survived, because rescue efforts began quickly. The reason the rescue likely failed was because they were already dead, under a bush, and couldn't signal to the multiple plane flights. I don't really buy the 'agonizing pain of dehyrdration' theory either--my mother died of dehydration, and she did not appear to be in any physical pain--she just lost consciousness. Bottom line, to me--Orbeso wasn't thinking right.

Wildhorse--I totally know what you mean about fearing that maxim might apply to me!

[Sean]

my mother died of dehydration, and she did not appear to be in any physical pain--she just lost consciousness.

Huh? You watched your mother die of dehydration? Were you all out of water with no way to reach help?

[Wildhorse]

Dehydration is the way many of us will die. Serious dehydration cannot be reversed with a glass of water or even a fire hose, not in the desert and not in a hospital. Disease sometimes causes it, or medicines do, and prevent food and water from hydrating us. Without IV hydration we die. Hospice often uses this situation to accelerate death.

I too have seen these deaths, like Cynthia. Her observation is valid.

[cynthia23]

Sean, you asked re my mom: I think I mentioned this somewhere much earlier in this long thread, but in case I didn't--my mom had a major brain tumor and chose not to operate or have chemo because it was far too late by the time it had been discovered. I cared for her during her final weeks. For whatever reason, she chose to stop eating, and then, drinking any fluids at all--her fluid intake went from a few sips of water to nothing at all. We attempted to get her to drink but she wouldn't. We didn't intervene with IV fluids etc because she was on hospice care, where the person is allowed to die naturally without medical interventions that only drag out the death process more. Because I'd been schooled on the 'you can only last three days without water' notion, I thought she would die rapidly, but that didn't happen at all--instead she gradually lost consciousness and lived on, unconscious, for nearly ten days. The hospice nurses told me that wasn't uncommon and that the 'you can only last 3 days without fluids' thing is basically a myth. Her systems shut down and she died. While her brain tumor would have caused her death within weeks, the direct immediate cause was dehydration.

[Perry]

I think the evidence on motivation is weak enough to allow room for the various opinions expressed here.

And it's okay to not have an opinion. I don't. Too many unknowns.

[Wildhorse]

Hi Perry, that is surely okay and pleasantly avoids the lurid alternatives that haunt us.

[Sean]

Rachel and Joseph were not diseased patients in a hospice bed. They did not have access to pain meds, nurses, and family. They were healthy young friends stuck under the blazing desert sun, alone and out of nourishment. They didn't have days. They had mere hours before the sun and heat was going to bake them to death. That's not the sort of dehydration event one experiences peacefully and painlessly.

[Ed]

My 97 year old mother-in-law died in May, in our home. We had her on home-hospice care. The visiting nurse put 'dementia' on the death certificate, but I think that is a euphemism. I think she died of dehydration and starvation. She could have been kept alive much longer with an IV, but that is not what she wanted, and we were advised not to try to force her to eat or drink. So I think I've seen someone die of dehydration. It is a slow process, even for someone who is 97 years old. And, please Sean, no smart remarks about keeping her alive.

A young man took a young woman out to the desert in July, packing a gun, and probably carrying drugs. He shot and killed her. The circumstances are suspicious, to put it mildly. The explanation may be altruistic, and I have no objections to people who prefer that explanation. But I think it is unlikely, and feel no obligation to grant it as an entitlement.

[Sean]

Not interested in how old people die in hospice care. My grandma died this way. Not relevant.

If you want to know what happens to people who die from thirst in the desert, read accounts of people who die from thirst in the desert. It's not pretty. This guy dropped dead within ten hours, after having turned pale, suffering severe cramps and hallucinations.