Cactus to Clouds June through Sept is a DEADLY idea ..

[Perry]

Zip, now that my daughter is a bit older, I have mixed feelings about posting photos publicly. Email...

Scott, that is funny. Sometimes I'm almost too tired to laugh at things. Definitely not as fast as before, and I don't go all the way up Skyline now, just a couple thousand feet and back down.

There is more margin of error for runners because you have more time to walk or limp off the trail before it gets too hot, if something goes wrong. Also, staying within comfort limits gives some margin of error before reaching dangerous heat limits. A summer day that is cooler than average is less risky than your average summer day.

[cynthia23]

As Climbant mentioned in the 'hottest place' thread, we just had two hikers rescued off the Bump and Grind trail at 9 a.m., (yes, heat stroke at 9 a.m.) where it is currently, at 3.30 pm, 124 degrees!!!

NO ONE SHOULD BE HIKING THIS WEEK. Sorry for the all caps, but I'm in no mood to 'consider all sides of the issue'. Right now, it's grossly irresponsible to undertake anything more than a short (i.e. under an hour round trip), pre-dawn hike. Even then, you will be hot and unable to move fast. I was out for a brief jog at 7 am and it was already 94 degrees! I don't care how fit you are, it's really irrelevant.

Anyone attempting C2C under conditions like these is just plain idiotic.

[David W]

Heck, its was warm at 7500 feet on SR yesterday...you have to be insane to want to be outside. I have a buddy doing asphalt today...can you imagine?

[Wildhorse]

KMIR reported a rescue by helicopter at 8:30 AM. Desert Sun reported two other rescues that happened later. It says the 911 call came in a little after 9. At that time, it was too hot to use a helicopter, and the firefighters walked back down with them a little after 11AM. By then the temperature was much higher, apparently more than 110. The firefighters' words reported by the newspaper seem to imply that they thought these folks could have made it if they were more fit and prepared.

It is interesting to learn that heat limits helicopter rescue ability. For the sake of the curious, can anyone here elaborate on that?

[climbant]

Basically cold air is heavier so the helicopter uses less power for lift, the hotter it gets the less power the helicopter will have reducing weight load.

[Wildhorse]

Thank you, Climbant.

911 has limits. Rescue is not guaranteed.

[zippetydude]

It's amazing that it makes that much difference, but it surely does. A few years ago they were testing out a new helicopter over San Gorgonio and it hit a pocket of "low density air" and actually crashed. No one was hurt, but it hit pretty hard. It happened to land directly on Vivian Creek Trail and it was badly damaged (I came across it by chance on my way to the peak). All this from a pocked of hot air.

The lack of air density is also why they can't do rescues above 22,000 no matter how cold the air might be (like on Everest).

Given that it seems strange that a 747 can weigh 875,000 lbs and fly at 40,000 feet.

Anyway, it totally sucks that the firefighters had to hike out in that heat. They are some tough people. When it's 100+ outside and they respond to a fire, they still have to wear all that suffocatingly hot protective gear.

Glad the people were okay, but I am mystified how they were unable to figure out in advance that it was a bad idea.

z

[cynthia23]

I agree with you Zip that firefighters ability to rescue people or fight fires in temps like this, is absolutely amazing, and their willingness to do it, is absolutely admirable.

I saw a clip on the local news of the hikers rescued off the Bump and Grind. They were two fairly fit looking women in their sixties--by no means were they overweight or obviously out of shape. If they called for a rescue at 9 am they must have begun at, I'm guessing, maybe 8 or 8.30. For much of the year that's reasonable, and most people don't imagine it can be 104 at 9 am (which is what it was.) Of course, they should have started no later than 6.30, and even that, on a day like today, is a late start. So while they miscalculated badly, I'm inclined to cut them some slack. Also, Palm Desert seems to have been unusually and especially hot--it was a couple of degrees hotter there today than even in Thermal, usually our hottest spot. So the microclimate on Bump and Grind (barren and exposed) may have made it even hotter than could have been anticipated.

They had a guy on the KESQ news going around getting readings from various surfaces in the valley--the temperature of the ground (gravel surface) was 179 degrees. My AC actually stopped working for several hours today--the repair guy came out and said nothing was wrong with it, it just stops working when temps are this high because the condenser overheats.

Somebody just wake me up in November.

[David W]

I agree with you Zip that firefighters ability to rescue people or fight fires in temps like this, is absolutely amazing, and their willingness to do it, is absolutely admirable.

I saw a clip on the local news of the hikers rescued off the Bump and Grind. They were two fairly fit looking women in their sixties--by no means were they overweight or obviously out of shape. If they called for a rescue at 9 am they must have begun at, I'm guessing, maybe 8 or 8.30. For much of the year that's reasonable, and most people don't imagine it can be 104 at 9 am (which is what it was.) Of course, they should have started no later than 6.30, and even that, on a day like today, is a late start. So while they miscalculated badly, I'm inclined to cut them some slack. Also, Palm Desert seems to have been unusually and especially hot--it was a couple of degrees hotter there today than even in Thermal, usually our hottest spot. So the microclimate on Bump and Grind (barren and exposed) may have made it even hotter than could have been anticipated.

They had a guy on the KESQ news going around getting readings from various surfaces in the valley--the temperature of the ground (gravel surface) was 179 degrees. My AC actually stopped working for several hours today--the repair guy came out and said nothing was wrong with it, it just stops working when temps are this high because the condenser overheats.

Somebody just wake me up in November.

Head up to Santa Rosa



Also, re: helos, there is the wreckage from the '68 crash below the helipad on Toro.

[cynthia23]

Now, in addition to everything else, smoke is pouring into the valley from the San Gabriel mountain wildfires. On the plus side, the heavily overcast smoky skies have cooled down the temps a bit Just don't breathe too much.

The Desert Sun reported that temps in Palm Desert yesterday reached a high of 125 degrees. Even more astounding, the stats also said it was 97 at the tram.