3.24.16 Skyline Portion of C2C Climb Notes. 1st Ascent.

[XtremelyInspired]

If you are 6' 3" tall, 220 pounds, and hiking/climbing the Skyline/C2C trail during a hot summer day, I would recommend 6 liters of electrolyte infused water (13.23 pounds). Climbing the hotter, lower altitudes at night, a shorter individual may be able to get away with 3 liters (6.61 pounds) of electrolyte infused water with a few sports drinks.

[Ed]

We all agree on the advice 'start early' and carry 'plenty of water'. But the quantitative details depend on temperature, body size, and other factors. The nice thing is that you can make your own choices, based on your own experience. But I have problems with handing out firmly-worded advice based on one hike. People with experience will ignore it, but for first-timers it can be misleading.

Here is my experience, based on 35 Skylines (very thin experience, compared to many people on this board, but many more than one). I started out carrying 5 quarts of water, plus a 12 oz. bottle of some milk shake-like liquid. After a few hikes, I realized I was only drinking 2.5 to 3.5 quarts. the rest was excess weight. My default is now 3 quarts, with perhaps a half-quart more or less, for higher or lower temperatures. I weigh about 175 lbs, certainly smaller or larger people might carry a quart less or more. I have hiked the trail from late October to early June, with temperatures up to Palm Springs Low/High of 68/95. If speed is a factor, I am certainly one of the slowest people on the trail. If I told you my times, I would have to kill you.

As for starting times, I have nothing to say about C2C's and summer Skylines, which are well beyond my 74 year body and wobbly left knee. For fall-to-spring Skylines, my default starting time is about 1-1/2 hours before sunrise. with adjustments for current temperatures. The low for the day is around sunrise (see the WunderGround temperature graphs). Starting an hour and a half earlier, you have about three hours of hiking at as close to the low for the day as you can get. And only about an hour in the dark. After that, you rely on the lapse rate of about 3.5F/1000' to hold the temperature roughly constant. I've been warm and sweaty on the middle section, but frankly I've had more problems keeping my damn fingers warm on the final section than with heat. So far, I've suffered more from heat on summer hikes on Baldy, San Gorgonio and San Jacinto (keeping my fingers crossed here, of course).

Yes, you can expect snow on the upper section in the winter. I was once a fairly good snow climber (Shasta, Rainier and Hood; Popo, Ixta and Orizaba; Snow Creek; some time on McKinley; various snow climbs in the Sierras; etc.). Now I am skittish on hard, slippery snow, and definitely not into trail-breaking epics in deep, soft snow, of the kind Ellen and her gang report. But during the time I have been hiking Skyline, we have had dry winters. There are some periods where the snow is not bad, and trekking poles and microspikes are fine, and may not even be necessary, though I always carry them.

Any snow reports for the coming weekend, by the way? I was planning on Saturday, but it looks like nature added a bit more of the stuff the last day or two.

P.S. Congratulations to XtremelyInspired on his first Skyline. Considering that he started at 7am on a warm day and was over-loaded, he had an excellent hike. And if people don't agree with my advice or don't want to take it, that is fine with me. And, yes, we can have some fine discussions on 'hikes' versus 'climbs'. I'm afraid I started that one, but have pity on me, I am a retired academic, nit-picking is a way of life with us.

[Sally]

I just re-read my reply to this thread, and it does sound as though I have a casual attitude about this hike. Quite the contrary. I take this hike very seriously EVERY time I do it. The first thing I do when I get the urge to hike Skyline is check the weather report, for both Palm Springs and Long Valley. I am very picky about what kind of weather I will do Skyline in, especially when it comes to heat. Then I get the most up-to-date info on trail conditions from friends who have done it within the last few days. Conditions change daily, and week old info is too old to rely on when there is snow and ice. The night before the hike I gather my equipment according to what I have just learned about the weather and trail conditions. This will dictate how much clothing and fluids, and what special equipment I will bring. The trick is to balance what you might need with keeping the weight down. Being over-prepared could be such a burden that I wouldn't be able to keep going. Being under-prepared can lead to dehydratin, heat stroke, hypothermia, and fatal slips and falls. I always pack enough clothing and food to survive the night, you just never know!

A few weeks ago after a good snowfall I went up with friends, and all went well until we were ending the traverse and were nearing Coffman's Crag. We were following OPT's (other people's tracks) when suddenly we were obviously not on the trail anymore. We could see where we wanted to be, but there was nothing but deadfall, rocks, and drifts with those hidden holes you can punch through between us and the place we wanted to be. Our hike turned into a climb! Luckily for us we knew where we were and were able to get back on track. For someone unfamiliar with the area, it would have been very difficult or disastrous.

[hawkbill666]

Again - perhaps another difference between the locals that hike skyline dozens of times a year like I do on the local mountains here in Seattle.....but I would not step onto that trail without 6 liters of water in my pack.
I was raised on the base of that mountain and played on it as a kid and always forced my cub scout pack to follow me up it on basic hikes. Perhaps my last 30 years in the Pacific NW has made me "heat soft", but a couple of extra pounds for water is a problem I can "practice for", where running out of water is not something I can practice for. Its 6 liters as a base for me.

[Ed]

Duly noted. Perhaps I should have mentioned that my 3 quarts does not include the 20oz bottle of Gatorade I drink on the way to the trailhead. Also, I half-fill the bottles the night before, store them in the refrigerator, and top them up with ice in the morning. Whether or not that is physiologically important, I don't know, but it certainly makes the water more refreshing. The last time up I was not able to do that, because the refrigerator was not working. It seemed hotter than the reported temperatures, though I recall a post for another trail for that day mentioning that it was a hot and sweaty day, so perhaps it was another factor.

Also, I have a firm opinion that the most important thing on Skyline is knowing that you can do the 8,000' feet of gain. If you turn around and descend into the heat on a warm day, you certainly need more water.

[bluerail]

I think its technicaly a hike but when i track a trip in elevation rather than mileage, whether on trail or off, i seemed to consider it a climb..

35# pack ? Way to go! that would kill, skylines most fun with a fanny pack

[hawkbill666]

Not judging. As noted by others on this list some people really have their water needs locked in. As much as I hike I dont - or at least I hike in such a variety of situations and places I dont yet have the consistency in location and time of year to know my needs. And perhaps I am a lazy planner and just consider the extra water "more workout" .
And yes, I meant liquid. 4 liters of water and 2 liters of some sports drink is what I use. And for me its more than just managing exactly how much water I will need on a hike, its the idea of twisting my ankle really bad and sitting around waiting for rescue while the sun is rising. In 45 years of lots of hiking in varied terrain I have never twisted my ankle bad enough to not be able to hike out, but its nice to be prepared if I do.

[Ed]

The above posts are a good example of how experienced people can have different opinions and arrive at different conclusions.

I'm sure Steve is only half-joking about the fanny pack. When I have seen him, he has a pack on his back. But it is a very small, limp pack compared to mine. He seems to levitate rather than hike, standing erect, pausing and looking around. He doesn't seem to be moving fast, but it is an illusion. Don't take your advice from Steve! He and some others on the trail are not in the same universe as the rest of us! I think he knows that, and makes comments that are more entertainment than advice.

I don't believe in being prepared for every possible contingency, there are some wild-card ones. Last October I ran into a veteran of the trail: younger and faster than me, done the trail more than twice as many times as I have, regularly leads groups in the fall and spring. But he was having a bad day: muscle cramps, nausea, dizziness, jaw pain. Even a medically ignorant person like me knows jaw pain is an alarming symptom. At Flat Rock we sat down and had the powwow nobody wants to have. Go down? Go up? Fire up the SPOT? Jack gave serious consideration to going down. I was strongly opposed, less because it was a 90 degree day and more because I thought descending from Flat Rock with dizzy spells was an invitation to an accident. I was in favor of firing up the SPOT, but that is a bitter pill to take. After about 20 minutes of talking and resting, we started uphill. Amazingly, it went smoothly. I think Jack and his doctor concluded that it was a recent change in medication. It turned out ok, but it was scary for a while.

[7birdies]

Hydration/Energy needs for Skyline will vary greatly, to each his own, I think most would be surprised at how extreme the differences might be across the spectrum of Skyline users. For Skyline, I carry two handheld 22 oz. water bottles for hydration, the rest of my needs fit inside the small zippered pouches located on the water bottle holders, that's it.

[hawkbill666]

The above posts are a good example of how experienced people can have different opinions and arrive at different conclusions.

I'm sure Steve is only half-joking about the fanny pack. When I have seen him, he has a pack on his back. But it is a very small, limp pack compared to mine. He seems to levitate rather than hike, standing erect, pausing and looking around. He doesn't seem to be moving fast, but it is an illusion. Don't take your advice from Steve! He and some others on the trail are not in the same universe as the rest of us! I think he knows that, and makes comments that are more entertainment than advice.

I don't believe in being prepared for every possible contingency, there are some wild-card ones. Last October I ran into a veteran of the trail: younger and faster than me, done the trail more than twice as many times as I have, regularly leads groups in the fall and spring. But he was having a bad day: muscle cramps, nausea, dizziness, jaw pain. Even a medically ignorant person like me knows jaw pain is an alarming symptom. At Flat Rock we sat down and had the powwow nobody wants to have. Go down? Go up? Fire up the SPOT? Jack gave serious consideration to going down. I was strongly opposed, less because it was a 90 degree day and more because I thought descending from Flat Rock with dizzy spells was an invitation to an accident. I was in favor of firing up the SPOT, but that is a bitter pill to take. After about 20 minutes of talking and resting, we started uphill. Amazingly, it went smoothly. I think Jack and his doctor concluded that it was a recent change in medication. It turned out ok, but it was scary for a while.

I cant even begin to say how many times I have read reports just like the above, very humbling to me as I continue to learn skills on the mountain. We have a local hike here - Mt. Si, a respectable 3800 feet, and of course childsize compared to skyline or C2C. I go up it all the time, usually solo at night as its close enough to work and night is when I have time. In the winter it gets icy and windy so it deserves respect. End of last summer I was coming down (solo at night) and started to get really dizzy. I was wobbling and leaning into my hiking poles. I never got too worried as the dizzy didnt get worse - but it didnt get better. Great cell coverage on the trail, so I had my backup. Did all my hydration stuff, electrolights, resting, breathing, etc. Didnt go away. I had done nothing different on that hike and haven't had the problem since. I know hikers who have summitted our biggy here - Mt Rainier at 14409 feet half a dozen times and then on climb 7 they got alititude sick!? Nothing changed - and they had even more experience....
Yes, you cant prepare for everything and OH what a debate that can spawn between hikers - load out "discussions" (arguments).
And experience is huge - I only have a simple 3 C2Cs under my belt, and one was an abort just short of the top. But skyline fills me with a sense of excitement and some healthy fear. My loadout is 18 pounds of liquids . What is a few extra pounds - hell, I am not going to match any of you for speed anyways