3.24.16 Skyline Portion of C2C Climb Notes. 1st Ascent.

[XtremelyInspired]

1. Start climb at midnight to avoid desert heat and excessive water requirements.
2. Blisters will incapacitate you. Hiking boots that rub your heals too much will create massive blisters. Bring tape, moleskin, and scissors for blisters. Wear light weight cross trainers or running shoes instead with gators.
3. Body maintenance is the most important thing to remember!   Food, energy gel caps in pants pockets easily accessible on the outside of body instead of in your pack. Eat and drink continuously all the way to the summit!!!!!
4. Pack weight too heavy. A 35 pound pack is way too heavy! Camelback backpack that can accommodate 6 liters of water and a sports drink would be much better. Infuse water with electrolyte tablets. Minimum of 6 liters of water in camelbacks that have easily accessible hoses.
5. Extra batteries for GPS Delorme with insurance for rescue purchased. Battery backup brick (mofie) for phone charged and packed.
6. Microspikes and hiking poles instead of crampons and ice axe in late March because of the significant weight difference.
7. This is an extreme professional climb and should be completed carefully, methodically, and at a comfortable steady pace all the way up. The summit wall is a bear! After climbing 6000 feet, the 2000 foot summit headwall is the crux of the entire climb. Even if you did everything right in terms of body maintenance to this point, this is the true test of whether you properly trained for this climb.
8. Hat or head covering to shade from sun was missed, but highly recommended during the day.
9. Still some snow on top in late March, but snow is soft in late afternoon. Did not use crampons, ice axe, or microspikes in late afternoon traverse.
10. Wear pants with extra pockets on the outside. Layer clothing. Jacket shell needed for cool weather from 7000+ feet up in shade and snow fields.
11. Microfiber cloth to clean perspiration from glasses.
12. Cloth to wipe nose.
13. Cloth to wipe face.
14. Respect this climb or it will eat you up and spit you out!

[Ed]

I am baffled by the above. Was this a Skyline hike or the full C2C? The mention of 6,000 + 2,000 feet of gain suggests Skyline. If so, a midnight start and 6 liters of water sounds extreme, even after allowing for the weather being warm for this time of year. I am currently recovering from a pain in my calf, but had I gone up yesterday I would have started 1-1/2 hours before sunrise and carried 3 liters of water, both of which are my default. With 6 liters of water, and an ice axe and crampons, yes, it would be a heavy pack. I am one of the people who is fussy about the difference between a hike and a climb, but under current conditions this is definitely the former, not the latter. And though the hike from Flat Rock to Grubbs Notch is tough for many of us, I've never seen it referred to as a 'summit headwall'.

[XtremelyInspired]

I am a rock climber and have nearly 30 years of experience climbing peaks all across the western U.S., many of which are Colorado''s 14ers where I live. While there is still snow on the trail, the last 1000 feet qualify this as a climb versus a strenuous hike.

I started at Ramon and only made it to the PS Aerial Tram. So, I would say that my climb consisted only of the Skyline portion of the C2C. I packed as if I was going to climb all the way to San Jacinto Peak. The purpose of this climb turned out to be an equipment test for me.

I am 47 years old, 6' 3" tall, and weigh 220 pounds. With my pack on, I weighed in at 255. This is way too much weight for both me and my pack.

I started at sunrise at 7 AM and did not summit the upper PS Aerial Tram Station until 5 PM. I was perspiring excessively because of the heat. When I climb 14ers in Colorado, I start climbing at midnight to avoid the lightening and thunderstorms that come in every afternoon like clock work. The Skyline trail would be much easier to climb at night before the sun comes up because of the excessive heat in PS below 6000 feet during the summer months.

Many amateur hiker/climbers do not have very good body maintenance skills in the heat. They only eat and drink when they stop to rest. This is a critical mistake that many make. You must eat and drink continuously all the way to the summit in order not to cramp-up and stall.

Every one is different. Do what makes sense for you based on your experience and ability, but do not underestimate the level of difficulty of this climb!

After 6000 vertical feet, the last 2000 feet gets progressively steeper and more strenuous until Grubbs Notch where it turns up and goes straight up the mountain in short steep switch backs some of which are still covered in snow. There is also a large tree that has fallen across the trail that you have to navigate over or under. Trail finding was easy for me.

I would rate this hike/climb as extreme and only for experienced professionals who have mastered excellent body maintenance skills. Light and fast with at least 6 liters of water is much better than heavy and slow on this hike/climb. 3 liters of water plus a few sports drinks may get you to the upper tram station if you climb the first 5000 feet at night during the hot spring and summer months.

[hawkbill666]

I love trip reports, especially since I am so far away from my favorite mountain, but I was a bit bamboozled by this one. It seemed like you were inchanging narratives and then recommendations and I didn't understand the perspective. You left at midnight? or you were recommending to do it?, and then later you said you left at 7am? That is just one of many places I got a bit lost, like I wasn't wearing my hat on a C2C climb and was getting dizzy . Sorry, I couldn't resist that, but I still loved your perspective as I miss this hike.

I am just a C2C tourist, flying down once a year to do the hike. And although I logged a fair amount of Glacier time in the NW as part of a rope team, I have never climbed a shear rock face. That last 1000 feet of skyline is certainly steep, but not anything that would make me want to get roped up. Maybe, just maybe I might want an ice axe if the snow weren't soft...

A good example of the diversity of thoughts and approaches I find here, although most of the "legacy" crowd on this board that have done this hike up to hundreds of times have some very good recommendations around safety that I point even experienced hikers towards first.

On my last C2C I brought my good friend who had never really hiked and he burned me in speed all the way to the tram, but started dragging ass bad just before the summit. Going up C2C or even skyline without being a hiker is something I would NEVER recommend, but he is a very trained lifelong endurance athlete. Still anyone new to Mt San Jacinto don't do that! until you follow the way laid out recommendations elsewhere on this board.

Thank you for sharing

[XtremelyInspired]

Question of the day:

What’s the difference between hiking and mountain climbing?

A. Hiking is a long distance walk along a specific trail, most commonly across country. Some hikes can be challenging and last for days including camping, but others can be a long day walk at a steady pace. However, mountain climbing is a challenging sport in which people climb steep rocky slopes to reach the top. Specific equipment is needed in order to mountain climb such as an ice axe and rope depending on the terrain. You physically climb using both your hands and feet onto the rocks or ice and snow to get to the top.

http://www.mountainwarehouse.com/expert ... n-climbing

After the snow melts, I would re-classify the Skyline Trail from a climb to a hike.

[guest]

I'm waitin till it becomes a hike again, although it sure feels like a climb.

No need to respond, I've done this hike a few....times, just havin some fun.

[hickey]

Question: "What’s the difference between hiking and mountain climbing?"
Answer: No margin for error here... one requires a mountain, the other simply does not.

Of note: C2C can be called a trail, a hike, a hiking trail, a summit hike, a mountain trail, a mountain climb, a good one, a bit*h.......call it whatever you want.
I consider myself an 'Alpinist', it is a class of mountain climbing in the way 'scrambling' or 'mantling' is a classification in rock climbing.
The Alpine style is self sufficient, no overnights, no ropes or tools, hands free for climbing, route finding, done usually solo, hike in and always hike out.
(that's right....I never tram it)
....just me.

[Sally]

I find this thread to be amusing and a fun read as I did Skyline (for the umpteenth time) today with Ellen and other friends. It was a lovely cool day and I was surprised to see patches of fine Styrofoam-pellet-like snow below 5,000'. We kept well-nourished and hydrated along the way with an extended rest and snack break at a place formerly known as Florian's Bucket. We opted to not bring microspikes, making the decision from our observations of the snow a week ago. There was a very short stretch (about 20' ?) where traction would have been nice, but hardly worth the trouble to put it on. We enjoyed beverages at the tram bar, and before heading to the tram loading area, which was crowded with holiday visitors, it began to snow. What a perfect detail to an already great day!

By the way, I am upgrading my status from "Hiking Enthusiast " to "Experienced Professional" as per information from ExtremelyInspired.

[XtremelyInspired]

Perfect weather for hiking/climbing today.

[cynthia23]

Well, this TR was perhaps a little 'over the top' for me, but I do think the basic point--that during the winter when the upper portions are covered with snow and ice, it is properly described as a 'climb' and not a hike--is quite valid. People who undertake it in January merely expecting a strenuous hike would get a dangerous surprise as it does require some alpine skills and it's certainly not safe for a casual or occasional hiker. I think the 'regulars' who do the trail and other equally challenging routes don't fully appreciate how unusually high their conditioning levels and skill sets are, vis a vis the average weekend warrior. Granted, Skyline is not K2, but let's not forget it has been rated as one of the five hardest day hikes in North America. I'd rather see people overprepare than be too casual.

I agree with Ed that six liters of fluid is overkill and too heavy. I've seen people get thrashed and bonk because they were carrying too much water weight. Three or at most four liters is adequate.