C2C on February 21st 2016

[thetemeculaguy]

Hi everyone, i am new to your form, love reading everyones experiences.
We plan on leaving the museum around midnight tonight, hopefully this will allow ample time to make it to the summit before dark.
We haven't decided if we are going to take the tram back down or push on to humber park, don't worry our ride is planning to meet us wherever we need(:
My real question for you guys is, do you think microspikes and trekking poles will be enough, or should i bring my ice-axe in addition to poles and spikes?
any other advice will be appreciated as well, i will be bringing 5 liters h20 and 1 liter coconut h20 at least. plus plenty of snacks and a few mountain houses. We aren't trail runners, defiantly not worried about the time it takes us to the top, I just want to make it to the top(: buddy did the whole pct last year so he may be above me in fitness, this will be a fun challenge. also have the gps track on my phone so i am not too worried about losing the trail.

[Johnlee]

Did C2C yesterday 2/20. Footprints and tracks in the snow are obvious. Ice is nice and packed up to Grubbs notch so footing is great. Trekking poles required, especially for 4 points of contact in the soft snow near the summit. If you stick to the trails, ice axe not required. Microspikes required at the traverse and above. Snowshoes useful for the last 2-3 miles or so. Yesterday, it seemed like for for every person that summited without snowshoes, 3 had to turn back. That said, if you're fit enough to do C2C, you can probably tough it but it will add some time to your hike. But they aren't as tired as you will be, and will have started from the tram earlier.

Also, I mistakenly followed a gpx route (c2c_success on shyamal.com) and that cost me an hour or two. Either the winter trails are different or there are new trails/shortcuts. Close to the summit, the gpx goes right, then left, then up. Much faster just to go right, then straight for the summit.

I brought 4 liters and it was plenty for me (200 lb person), left one at rescue 2 (which was out of water at the time).

Also, definitely get uber before you get to the bottom of the tram. There is no reception down there, but there is intermittent reception on top and on the way down. A taxi was $23 + tip, an uberX was $7 i believe.

[mczzmm]

John,

Thanks for the update on the mountain as I'm planning on doing it on 2/27 for the first time. I've been concerned about the traverse and picked up crampons and an ice axe, yet may not take the ice axe after your feedback. Did you end up carrying up snowshoes or renting them near the Tram? Did you buy your tram ticket down up top?

Mark

[sdtrackrunner]

OK, I don't mean to be a pain in the neck, but in light of yet another fatality in the currently icy socal mountains (terribly tragic and my condolences to the man's family)...
http://www.pe.com/articles/hiker-795011-baldy-month.html

... I feel like revisiting my old rant about trekking poles and microspikes vs. crampons and an ice axe. It is my personal opinion that if you find yourself reading, writing, or considering thoughts like "trekking poles required" or "microspikes required", then what you really should take to heart is: "crampons, ice axe, helmet, and the skills and experience to use them are required". Part of that experience is the ability to make the decision to turn around and bail at the right moment.

Trekking poles and microspikes are nice conveniences, and I use them on icy trails when there is no exposure to a dangerous fall or slide. I can really move quickly with them compared to wearing crampons, and that's nice. However, under no circumstances would I ever describe them as required. If certain pieces of equipment are "required", to me that means that those items are likely to come between me and an untimely demise and a few 1cm dull metal triangles just aren't going to cut it. Neither are floppy, non-load-bearing trekking poles that aren't worth a crap in a self arrest situation. Specifically, right now in the socal mountains, there's a beautiful and deceptively treacherous topcoat of glossy ice (no longer snow!) that is taking a lot of people by surprise and has caused 3 people this month to slide over 1000 feet to their deaths by blunt trauma, and many more to be rescued, so heads up. To me, slope + ice + exposure = mountaineering, not hiking, and there is no substitute for the proper tools and experience to prevent half the mountain's trees and rocks from beating the shit out of me.

With all that said, maybe you won't find that kind of exposure on skyline, maybe you will for only a brief section, tempting you to go for it, your mileage may vary. I don't mean to pick on anybody either, apologies for any bent feeling or comments taken out of context. These are just my thoughts and part of my heuristic system for making choices in the mountains. Make your own decisions and have fun.

[cam]

The guy that died on Saturday near Baldy from what I understand was wearing crampons and the female that went down 300ft with injuries on Sunday was wearing micro spikes. Though these traction devices are great for keep you from slipping on the trail, but they won't do much good for stopping you from sliding downhill when the snow below your feet gives way. Having an ice axe in hand when passing though those sketchy sections and knowing how to perform a fall arrest will save you in case of a slide. Ice axes are inexpensive, and most backpacks these days have an ice axe loop to allowing you to secure it in place. Cheap insurance to have with you during the snowy/icy hikes.

[mczzmm]

Thanks cam and sdtrackrunner for the feedback and warning. Ice Axe and crampons will join me on my journey next Saturday in order to be safe!

[Ed]

There are certainly many trips on which you are well-advised to have an ice axe, crampons and a helmet, plus self-arrest skills. But I am concerned that some people are being given the impression that these are sufficient. Even after a day of instruction and practice in self-arrest, there are situations where the ability to self arrest is far from assured. Practice sessions are typically on moderate slopes with good runouts, only one type of snow, done without wearing packs or crampons, and I doubt they include self-arresting from either hand very often. There are always going to be slopes too steep and icy for a successful self arrest, and crampons encourage people to venture into those situations.

Back in the 1970's, when there was a transition to the equipment that is standard today - kernmantle ropes, harnesses, helmets, belay-rappel devices, metal-shaft ice axes, etc. - Royal Robbins became exasperated with the many discussions on equipment safety, and made a wise comment. He said that the safety of the equipment is less important than knowing its limitations, and exercising your judgment to remain within them.

If you are too young to know who RR is, he was an LA boy who learned to climb from the Sierra Club and went on to become one of great pioneers of Yosemite rock climbing, particularly noted for his emphasis on climbing style. He was also one of the three authors of the decimal system for 5th class. For many years, the only book on rock climbing was a slender volume by RR. As an example of the variability and the role of luck in snow climbing, he relates in his autobiography a climb of North Palisade by the U-Notch Couloir with the Sierra Club where he slipped and fell going down the couloir, but fortunately they were roped up. I've been up and down the U-Notch Couloir twice, unroped, under far from ideal conditions. Very nervous, I can assure you, particularly coming down. I was quite good at self arrest then, but I estimated my chances of a successful self arrest at well under one half. Sometimes you simply have to take responsibility for what you are doing.

[hawkbill666]

One of the better posts I have read in sometime on judgments around mountain safety for sometime. I especially agree when you start thinking trekking poles are required, an iceaxe is likely required in its place. The "three points" of contact from an iceaxe kick ass over the "four points" of contact of trekking poles.
And as a disclaimer I know nothing about hiking on these mountains in the wintertime. But I have done a fair bit of winter hiking in the NW, where the same "spikes vs crampons" discussions come up.
Ice axes are cheap and relatively light - and they just look and feel badass

All my best to my socal friends.

Scott

[Johnlee]

Of course I would err on the side of caution whenever going up the mountains and bring ice axe/real crampons just in case. It's only about 3 pounds more. I know of 5 people who did the skyline trail on 2/20 and none of them felt the need to bring out an axe or crampons. Didn't see anyone use them on the way to the summit either. I brought snowshoes up but next time I would just rent them from the tram.

[thetemeculaguy]

I ended up having a change of heart the night before we were supposed to leave, i ended up calling it off, just didn't feel up to it, and my new headlamp haden't arrived yet
We ended up starting in humber park and ascending to the peak from there, it was quite the hike with lots of deep soft snow, we ended up taking the tram down to ps and getting a ride back to Idyllwild. Ended up leaving a pair of almost new extra large microspikes at the mountain station, so that kinda sucked.
I will definitely attempt cactus to clouds one day, but ultimately turned out that it wasn't for me on Sunday. I did have a nice hike down to the tram, altho the last half mile i almost got lost in the dark. Good thing i had the c2c saved on my phone as it showed me where the tram station was otherwise i may have been wandering around for a good bit in the dark.

The losing of microspikes just give me a reason to buy a set of crampons:)