Tragic story of hikers dying from hiking in NM desert

[halhiker]

Another tragic tale of people hiking in the desert heat. Both a mother and father perish while the 9 year old son makes it out.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/08/us/new-me ... index.html

[cynthia23]

My sister was telling me about this terribly sad case. Of course I'm reminded of the Scottish woman who recently died here, and also the couple from the Netherlands who died in Joshua Tree when they left their stalled car and tried to walk. It seems to me that some greater effort needs to be made to communicate to our foreign visitors the dangers of heat stroke and the inadvisability of hiking during the summer in the desert. At some level I feel there is a reluctance on the part of authorities to possibly lose tourist dollars by discussing honestly how dangerous the heat is--it's almost as if they're afraid that if they're really honest, they'll lose tourists during the summer (which, maybe, is exactly what needs to happen.)

Thanks for posting, Hal.

[halhiker]

Update to story. Seems the family only had two 20 oz. bottles of water with them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/us/new-me ... index.html

[RichardK]

I think these deaths were due to dehydration rather than heat. Many years ago my wife and I hiked Little Bridge Canyon in Death Valley in May. The forecast was low 90's. We carried 8 liters of fluids - 4 liters of Cytomax and 4 liters of water. By the time we returned to our vehicle seven hours later, we had drunk all of it. We also had a cooler in the car and continued drinking there. Upon returning to Stovepipe Wells, we discovered that the afternoon high had been 108. While we felt very hot during the hike, we never experienced discomfort because we continuously replenished our fluids and electrolytes. Had we not carried adequate water for the conditions, we would have been a statistic.

[cynthia23]

Well, I think I would have to somewhat disagree with you. It takes a long time to die of dehydration--several days or even a week. Of course, I agree that 20 oz of water was not enough. But a thing that often concerns me locally is people who are attempting strenuous trails here in summer who believe that if they just carry enough water, it will protect you from heat stroke. They have a belief that water is almost like a magical elixir that protects you from heat stroke. Dehydration will make heat stroke worse/come on faster, but with enough heat, drinking all the water in the world still won't protect you. A guy who died here a couple of years ago was found with a full bottle of water. In fact, if you keep drinking tons of water, you may die of hypnoatremia, as some marathoners have.

I also think there's a lot of individual genetic variation in our ability to tolerate exercising in extreme heat, and it also matters how fit you are and how used to exercising in the heat. FWIW, the preliminary reports indicated the couple died of heat strokes. But, while I do think that drinking water as a 'cure' for heat stroke is overblown, I think it can be very helpful if applied externally--i.e. hat misters, wet bandanas, etc.

In the case of this couple, it appears that like most northern Europeans, they simply had no experience of a long walk in extreme heat. They were unprepared physically and mentally. I'd be similarly unable to tolerate or gauge the safety of walking in Alaska during the winter.

[Myth]

At some level I feel there is a reluctance on the part of authorities to possibly lose tourist dollars by discussing honestly how dangerous the heat is--it's almost as if they're afraid that if they're really honest, they'll lose tourists during the summer (which, maybe, is exactly what needs to happen.)

It is sad, but that is likely a factor. In my neck of the woods there is a similar problem with drownings in the Kern River, which is a very treacherous river, and businesses' resistance against warning signs. Generally during summer holiday weekends, out of towners flock to the area for recreation and it is during these times that people drown. Efforts were made in 2008 to put up warnings on portable Caltrans signs during holiday weekends but the local businesses kicked up a fuss, fearing lost revenue. The signs were going to display "250 Died Stay Out Of River" but that was considered too frightening and "Caution River Dangers Stay Alive" was substituted instead.

This link shows the permanent warning signs at the mouth of the Kern River Canyon which basically convey the same information, so I never understood why the Caltrans signs were considered over the top:

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/Updated-signs-renew-warning-of-deadly-Kern-River-260457671.html

Note that the Caltrans sign was going to warn about 250 deaths ( since 1968 ) in the Kern River, and the photo above, from 2014, warns about 269 lives lost. So in a span of six years 19 people drowned in the river. The drownings are predominantly from out of town - locals grow up knowing not to swim in the Killer Kern.

[Ed]

I'd be similarly unable to tolerate or gauge the safety of walking in Alaska during the winter.

Actually, I think one of the worst conditions is temperatures hovering around freezing, with strong winds and high precipitation. If it rains, the rain is as cold as it can be; if it snows, the snow is as wet as it can be. And if you are in a cloud cap, the whole thing is leveraged by the wind whirling around the mountain. I've been in cloud caps on Rainier, Shasta and Baldy. From a distance, they look beautiful, and from below like nothing more than an overcast sky. Once you are inside one, it is truly a bad scene.

I've been waiting for another storm like the one that hit the Sierras on Memorial Day weekend in 1971. Perhaps Cy remembers it. A number of climbers died on Banner Peak, and hundreds of people were stranded by deep snow in various places. I was in the Mineral King area, so we were at the front end and were not completely surprised. For people on the eastern side of the Sierras, it was completely unexpected. I talked to one person who said there was no sign of bad weather until he hit the eastern crest and looking west saw the horizon completely covered by massive black clouds coming at him.

Many people seem to be much lighter on clothing and footwear today. Well, I guess weather forecasting has improved.

[cynthia23]

Myth, that's a horrifying story about the Kern river! To think that local businesses would actually lobby against a strong warning sign! How can they sleep at night, knowing they may have contributed to someone's death??

Ed, you are so right that a freezing rain is far more dangerous than cold dry weather. The more time I spend outdoors here, the more I realize that subtle/micro/local variations in weather can make a huge difference, sometimes the difference between a merely uncomfortable hike and one that turns into a rescue situation. For instance, yesterday was a high of 107, yet I was able to comfortably hike at 7.30 a.m.. In July, we had some sub-100 days, yet by 6.30 a.m., it was really too hot for me and by 7.30 I was definitely starting to have some heat stress. These small yet important variations are not something you're going to find in a weather report, but can make a big difference in long hikes.

[Wildhorse]

Re: deaths and the hiking business

In a different thread, Kilimanjaro is under discussion, but not about the deaths. Apparently about 17,000 people hike there every year. It is big business. Fees run about $2500 per hiker. Fatalities, according to Wiki, total about a dozen each year. The altitude is high enough to cause the most deadly altitude sickness. Between a third and a half of people who attempt Kilimanjaro don't make it to the top because of altitude sickness. I have known people who are unfit who have done this hike. Apparently anyone who wants to go can go, as long as the prepayment is made, of course. (Altitude sickness is unpredictable.) I know one fellow who was carried down by the guides after he began to hallucinate from altitude sickness. I guess the money is too good to worry about the deaths of a few wealthy foreigners and the suffering of a very large number of people. After all, climbing Kilimanjaro is voluntary adventure travel. And what is life without a selfie on the summit?

I think a few consumer deaths are considered acceptable in a lot of industries. The medical and pharmaceutical industries top the rest in this respect, with the blessing and complicity of the FDA and medical associations, of course. It is like that experiment, Milgram, in which they found that the suffering and deaths of people we don't know and whose cries we cannot hear don't really bother us much, even if we have caused the suffering and death.

[Ed]

Between a third and a half of people who attempt Kilimanjaro don't make it to the top because of altitude sickness.

It seems strange that altitude sickness is such a problem on Kilimanjaro, because the programmed ascents are quite slow and measured. The highest I've been is Orizaba, which is a little lower, and the only thing I remember is a slightly spacy feeling, probably the loss of a few IQ points. Plenty of altitude adjustment there, central Mexico is high to begin with, and we climbed Popo and Ixta first. I wonder if perhaps it is people who simply have the fatigue, headaches, sore throats and coughs, fuzzy thinking, etc. that are more or less half-normal, say this isn't the fun thing I thought it was going to be, and give up.

We ran into a party on Popo from Santa Fe who were in that category. We spent the night in the hut with them. They left before we did, and we passed them in the dark as we were going up and they were coming down. I asked them why they had turned back. No sleep last night (early start, plus the rodents in the hut!), fatigue, headaches, etc. They were heading for a well-known resort, I can't remember the name, where you could bathe in hot springs while drinking beer and eating tacos. Great idea, come to think of it.