Summertime Skyline: Calculated Risk or Miscalculation?

[Ed]

Noticed the references to Black Diamond above, I guess because of an association with Dean Potter. Black Diamond and Patagonia were created when Yvon Chouinard split his company, the Great Pacific Iron Works, into clothing and climbing equipment business, I think for liability reasons. Chouinard was a very skillful but also very ethics-conscious entrepreneur. He more or less monopolized steel American-made pitons, then wiped out that business in a few years with chocks. Very ethical, very public-spirited and very, very good business. An excellent way to sustain a durable-goods business by making the stock of products you sold obsolete, and making people believe they had to replace them with a new product line of yours. You could write a Harvard Business School case on it. Also very good judgment when it came to climbing. On the day when Willi Unsoeld decided to take his students up Rainier, leading to his death and that of one of his students, Chouinard reportedly looked up at the mountain from Paradise and said no way I'm going up when it looks like that. There's a saying, 'There are old climbers and there are bold climbers, but there are no old, bold climbers.' I suspect it was borrowed from pioneer aviators or some other class of people.

I'm afraid I don't agree with Dylan Thomas, I would like to go gently into the night. His own death was certainly not the model most people would like to follow. I'm not fond of leaving important matters up to God and the medical profession, or to accidents in the wilderness. But like most people I probably won't have a choice.

Is this discussion becoming morbid? Did I start it in that direction? Hope not! Well, it is a natural subject for thought when you are older.

[cynthia23]

No, I don't think you are morbid, Ed; after all the topic of this thread is whether it is 'worth it' to take certain kinds of risks. Zip, I enjoyed your foray into poetry! But think I would agree with that Dylan Thomas was not much of a role model (though to be fair, what poet is?) I'll 'counter' with the old Catholic prayer, "May the all-powerful Lord grant us a restful night and a peaceful death." I think most would hope for that. And if we don't get it? Well, then let's remember what the acerbic saint Teresa of Avila said, "In light of heaven, the worst suffering on earth will be seen to be no worse than one night in a bad hotel."

I lack her serene indifference--there seems like plenty of suffering on earth that can never be made up for--but it's probably true that focusing too much on having a pleasant 'exit' is not worth the effort.

[Hikin_Jim]

Somehow I doubt Teresa of Avila actually said that.

HJ

[Wildhorse]

Ed, thanks for that interesting history about Black Diamond and Patagonia. I really enjoy learning such stories as this one and the one about the Sierra Club that you told a few weeks ago.

I first read Dylan Thomas and this poem when I was 19, and I never forgot it. The idea that we should rage against our existential condition made sense to me at that young age. I took it as encouragement to live boldly and, looking back, I feel like it was good encouragement. Dylan Thomas must have been around 33 when he wrote the poem. Not old enough for much wisdom. But the teacher, and literary critic, who introduced me to these worlds was much older and wiser. I could see the fire of life in her eyes, the rage.

The doctors, hospitals, rescue workers and hospice nurses all want us to go gently without a fuss. Sorry, I won't. I don't plan to give them a chance to pressure me to go. I hope the rescue workers never come. This morning, I buried the bones of an opossum who died years ago under my wooden deck. I buried them under a tree. I hope the bear who finds me will kick a little dirt over my bones too.

[cynthia23]

Well, I don't know about bear burial, Wildhorse, but I'm reminded of how in Tibet the people put their corpses up on platforms and wait for the vultures to eat them. They have some sort of religious explanation for it, but it's a very practical custom, since they don't have enough fuel for cremation or soft enough ground for burial.

HJ--I think Theresa of Avila really did say it. It's one of her most famous quotes and I think it might be from her book The Interior Castle (which I really need to finish reading ) She wrote a lot of stuff. She was actually a very tough, active, smart woman who went out and did all kinds of transgressive things that weren't at all normal for women of her time.

I can definitely see her hiking up Skyline.

[Hikin_Jim]

HJ--I think Theresa of Avila really did say it. It's one of her most famous quotes and I think it might be from her book The Interior Castle (which I really need to finish reading ) She wrote a lot of stuff. She was actually a very tough, active, smart woman who went out and did all kinds of transgressive things that weren't at all normal for women of her time.

Well, maybe, but "a night in a bad hotel" doesn't sound like something that someone from the 16th century would say. (She died in 1582)

HJ

[zippetydude]

HJ, Cynthia has it right, but I think you do too. The part causing the confusion is the translation. Teresa de Avila spoke Spanish, not English. The phrasing she used, "en una mala posada" is perhaps better translated "in a bad inn". Biblical accounts of Mary and Joseph are not translated "there was no room at the hotel", it would sound goofy. Same thing here. Somehow in English we consider the two words almost synonymous, but think of ancient times as having inns and not hotels.

Translation is a tricky thing and quite an art form. In one translation of the Bible, they had to throw out the original phrasing altogether, which most translators of scripture are loathe to do. In a certain South Pacific language, if you say something twice, it is a device of irony and indicates that whatever follows is false or even ridiculous. How then to translate "Truly, truly I say unto you..." without turning it into "Get a load of this stupid tale I'm about to recount to you"? Fascinating process at times.

z

[cynthia23]

Zip, you continue to astound us with your hidden depths! Seriously, a very interesting post, and I'm impressed by your knowledge. Language is tricky and does not always convey what we intended, as we all know from some unfortunate contretemps on this very message board. Maybe emoticons are not as bad as they seem.

[Hikin_Jim]

Wow, good job, Zip. "en una mala posada" -- now I'll buy that.

HJ

[Wildhorse]

I cannot find the quote in Interior Castle, but the idea that the joy the faithful will know in heaven makes all earthly suffering seem trivial is a major theme in that work. St Teresa of Avila even encourages suffering in Interior Castles. To suffer is to imitate Christ, in her understanding of Christ.

Her writing is similar to many early Christian writings, as shown in the Book of Revelation, for example, when Christians were persecuted but encouraged to keep their faith, except that her encouragement of suffering goes beyond those ancient writings. They did not encourage suffering, only perseverance.

Dylan Thomas alludes to older Hebraic writing in his use of bless and curse. The poem may be read as a lament for the death of God. The boldness he encourages may be a reflection of Nietzche's writings about how we might respond to the death of God - as in the will to power, for example. I see much influence of Darwin's writings in the words of Dylan Thomas. The poem about the green fuse is an example. Nietzsche was also attempting to deal with the death of God associated with the view of humanity and the world reflected in Darwin's writings.

The difference between Dylan Thomas and St Teresa is stark.

At the same time, the writings of Dylan Thomas arguably resemble those of the prophets, such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, and the others. His way, like those of the prophets, is quite different from the piety of St Teresa.

St Teresa seems to be encouraging taking a calculated risk. With Dylan Thomas, it is different. For him, the only question seems to be how to live, knowing that in the end we will die. He encouraged living boldly, regardless of the risk. This appears to have been Dean Potter's perspective too. It is a reason for some to climb Skyline and to make other hard ascents. In a sense, Dean Potter had the boldness of Elijah.