Hiking C2C soon?

[Hikin_Jim]

Exactly Jim, water when it's critical, is water. Surely try to squeeze some out of the source, but I've drank out of scummy holes a time or two and I'm still here. I've a bad dose of giardia and it's miserable. But _eventually_ you get over it. When someone told me putting dirt in the bottles would possibly keep a person from drinking it and instead risk dying, well, you know right off they've never been in trouble. Like its been mentioned, if these people could not call for a helicopter ride, i think many of these people would self rescue and have a more meaningful experience. although probably sucky and tough at the time.

Potholes are your friend. I've literally scooped water out of a shallow depression in a rock with a spoon. It was enough to make breakfast tea which in turn was enough to get me to the next little spring. It took, I don't know, 15 minutes to get 2 liters at the little spring. I used a Sierra cup which I painstakingly held still while it filled so as not to dislodge organic matter. I then strained it through a bandana, poured it into a larger vessel, and Steri-penned it. It was actually very good water, just not much volume of flow.

By some miracle, I've never had Giardiasis, but my sister has. Helped her lose weight.

With respect to water at the rescue boxes, I think either use a) dirty water labeled "dirty but may save your life" or b) stop stocking them entirely. A full, unsealed bottle of Gatorade or clear water is just too much temptation for a lot of folks. Stocking the boxes with fresh water is just enabling sorry losers to take emergency supplies out of the very hands of the dying. We should have no part in enabling such.

HJ

[zippetydude]

I'm still unclear why the Palm Springs Police Department doesn't use them as a fund raiser. We're always talking about putting up signs...have a sign at both entry points expressly forbidding breaking into the boxes except in emergency, have a sign at each box, and have a sting operation every weekend for a few weeks with video and a couple cops. $500 ticket. THAT word would get around real quick! And a few thousand $$$ to cover the expenses of running the operation would end up turning a profit. I have to say, I'd laugh long and hard if they did that, and the video of the shocked, idiotic faces of the thieves when they were caught would be so much fun to watch! C'mon, it'll be fun!

z

[Wildhorse]

Okay. I have been thinking about all our options and, by combining everyone's ideas, I believe I now have workable plan.

First, we place a large sign at the trailhead that says:

Trail Closed Ahead
Snow-Cone Machine Broken
Guarded by Acerbic Killer Drones
Detour to Snow Creek Drainage
Or Leatherneck Ridge

I know that signs don't usually work, but they will in this instance. I know what you are thinking: only stupid fools would believe the sign. But that is my logic. Those are the same stupid fools who are rescued all summer. This sign will put an end to the rescues.

Second, we bottle the water Hiking Jim discovered and place it at the rescue stations, and maybe provide samples at the trailhead. We can put a label on the bottle that explains exactly what it is:

Mountain spring water infused with tiny living organisms that give it a natural musty fragrance and an oily finish.

We know it is probably safe, but will only be appealing to hikers who have the acquired taste for life saving elixirs. Next to it, we could place an empty bottle labeled purification tablets and a couple of champaign glasses just for fun.

[arocknoid]

tangent from skyline/rescue boxes etc

Re: badwater blues

Jim, an "ultralight" approach to water safety and improved palatability; addresses issues of "Dirt, Bugs, and Chemicals"

1. use your (current) bandana filter for larger particles. (you can bypass this step depending how "dirty" is the water source)
2. add a pinch of powdered alum for coagulation-flocculation of fine suspended particles (and many micro-organisms as well) (+/- halogen --hypochlorite/iodine-- at this point, or after coffee filter-->better)
3. filter thru coffee paper
4. Steri-pen, which works better with clearer water
5. Draw through carbon filter (other micro filter options too)

you can also add a pinch (25 mg) of ascorbic acid powder (vit C) if you've used chlorine or iodine, which will convert the halide to a tasteless form.

One of the two water bottles I always carry is a (cheap) carbon filter version, but I rarely use the filter element, e.g. with the filter out I will fill the bottle at Columbine or above the ski hut or at (old!) Round Valley.

The Steripen is the heaviest item; best strategy for viruses in particular, which are not that dominant an issue with our *hiking* discussion vs. other travel.

Maybe a couple extra ounces added for "different" water bottle plus carbon filter.

further info from CDC Yellow Book
"Coagulation-flocculation (CF) removes suspended particles that cause a cloudy appearance and bad taste and do not settle by gravity; this process removes many but not all microorganisms. CF is easily applied in the field. Alum, an aluminum salt that is widely used in food, cosmetic, and medical applications, or one of several other substances, is added to the water and stirred. The clumped particulates that form are allowed to settle, then poured through a coffee filter or fine cloth to remove the sediment. Tablets or packets of powder that combine flocculent and hypochlorite disinfection are available (products include Chlor-floc and PUR Purifier of Water [Proctor and Gamble—for humanitarian use, not sold commercially])."

I'll hold off on discussing the misconceptions of iodine allergy (in particular re: iodine tabs/ water purification) for here and now. These continue to be perpetuated on the internet even at otherwise good Medical sites, and IRL by many medical professionals not up-to-date. crikey, look at previous editions of Harrison's
Interesting PubMed article on this, on Perpetuating Myths in Medical Education. (Most of the iodine myth discussion will be readily found in the context of iodine/shellfish/CT contrast allergy research)

and btw pi, don't forget to bring your iodine tabs when surfing at San Onofre, 'just in case!" (tho not a laughing matter, even post-shutdown of the reactors)

kind regards,
arocknoid

[bluerail]

Coffee filters and iodine are always worthwhile to take if you're concerned about running out of water. But skyline is well publicized to have no water, we'll at least before the boxes. The boxes should have been locked since the beginning

[Pitownpi]

and btw pi, don't forget to bring your iodine tabs when surfing at San Onofre, 'just in case!" (tho not a laughing matter, even post-shutdown of the reactors)

kind regards,
arocknoid

always bring my own water when surfing, snowboarding usually not... mammoth water is pretty good i think!?
always have 5-10 gallons on the truck!
never liked drinking government city H20 or corpocracy bottled water, can taste the pipes&plastic, fluorine&chlorine!
my well is 325' deep w/6" casing and indistinguishable from fish creek water during taste-tests!
but what will they do w/San O anyhow? can they completely remove it and maybe sell it? LOL?
thyroid nodules get started by surfing at 'nukes'!

well, if yer 'choppering' water up to the boxes, then I'll have some fancy water, in fancy bottles.
FYI. i put cocoa or hot chocolate into my water caches...which are hidden/not published.
a tablespoon of cocoa sure makes it dirty looking, then just insert 1-2 crushed up peanuts in case someone with a peanut allergy finds them...

Good dependable WATER for all OR Water for none!
and free chopper flights!

Wetsuit legs and arms make great water haulers!

can hang in trees


fits nicely onto each side of pack


One Question,
where else in the USA do people try and do this ?
what do they do? all seems odd to me.

[Wildhorse]

Blue Rail wrote: if these people could not call for a helicopter ride, i think many of these people would self rescue and have a more meaningful experience.

I identify with the meaning of which Bluerail wrote. If not for getting into and out of danger sometimes, on my own and with friends, my hiking experiences would be less meaningful. These kinds of stories are the kinds that we hear other hikers tell.

I wonder only if there are other meaning stories that explain why so many need rescues at Skyline, and why someone would abuse the rescue system, including the water at the emergency stations. I would think that people would feel too embarrassed to tell such stories, but I am not sure about that. And even if they are embarrassed, I wonder if some kind of need for meaning, or other quest, led to the emergency situation, even if not understandable by me.

[Perry]

What if somebody left a 6-pack of IPA inside a portable fridge running off a car battery? Would that get raided?

[cynthia23]

I'm already at the bottom of Skyline, Perry. Post the coordinates ASAP.

[bluerail]

Im standing next her headed up the trail to the beer. That's what's usually at the end of a skyline for me anyway.