Hiking C2C soon?

[zippetydude]

I think it would be reasonable to have the rescued person defray some of the cost - not so much that no one would ever call, like $10,000.00, but maybe $500 or so. That would at least cover the gas. It isn't free to ride in an ambulance, you get billed for the transport. Why not bill for some reasonable but deterrent amount? Even if it doesn't stop unprepared people from doing Skyline, it would at least leave them smarting. Remember a few months ago when the guy got rescued twice in a 6 week period? I doubt he would have been a repeat offender. Remember those 8 Marines? That would have been $4,000.00 at $500 a pop, and that's more than a tank of gas. Just seems reasonable to me to have some cost in it so that the person goes home and tells their friends, "Don't ever try that! I almost died, and when I got airlifted out, it cost me $500! Worst weekend of my life!" Perfect. No one is going to agree to $10,000.00, but a reasonable fee....why not?

z

[Wildhorse]

Ed - I enjoyed the article you posted about the history of the Sierra Club and its opposition to the tram. The hikers of that day had great vision and could the negative effects of the tram. On one level, the cost of rescues on Skyline are part of the financial failure of the tram that the Sierra Club predicted. On another level, the rescues have increased with use of the Skyline Trail, which depends heavily on the tram, and that use is adding to the degradation of the wilderness. In that way, the rescues themselves add to the degradation by supporting the higher level of trail use. If one takes a strictly human-centered view, rescues seem unavoidable. From a broader ecological perspective, they are negative in their effect and generally should be avoided (along with cell phones.)

I remember again the fellow who told me that there is something evil up there on the mountain. From an ecological perspective, that would be the tram. The evil can also be understood as the whole way we "use" the mountain, including the rescues.

Cynthia's trail closure approach with citations (I presume that would be the penalty) is widely used to protect land and people.

Zippetydude's idea of charging for rescues seems consistent with rescue charges that those rescued in other contexts incur off the mountain. Should we charge the rest of the rescue cost to the tram? Or should we keep charging taxpayers as a whole, as we do now? My understanding is that the government charges fees to the tram operator. Maybe the government does not charge enough.

Are the rescue workers volunteers, or are they paid? I have known volunteers. The ones I have known have had the same drive for adventure that drives other mountaineers, and less qualified adventure seekers, to hike Skyline.

As Hiking Jim has observed, someday an earthquake may permanently stop the tram. We know the big one is coming.

I know a fellow who was struck by a falling tree on the Round Valley Trail while on a short hike. He was rescued, but not criticized. (He had a permit, was carrying plenty of water, and was wearing bright clothing.) The Forest Service tells me that the burned wilderness from Tahqutiz Valley to Willow Creek Canyon remains closed because of the danger of falling trees and because the trails are gone. Public safety is the way they frame this. By extension of the trails closure logic, if one can be struck down on even the Round Valley Trail, then should all the trails should be closed?

It was a friend with the Forest Service who told me the reason for the continued closure of the burned area. I said with a smile, "I don't need trails." My friend understood me. Another person overhearing our conversation, asked rhetorically and with disdain for me, "How will you get home without a trail?" No understanding there.

Home is the wilderness.

How will we ever get home?

[cynthia23]

Your posts are always wonderfully poetic and evocative, Ken, and always thought-provoking. I think you're right that essentially this is a problem that is the result of the tram. It's had an unnatural result, which is that a trail which normally would seem unappealingly difficult and unpleasant, almost literally has a kind of giant lollipop at the end (i.e. the tram bar, the smooth and easy ride down.)

This morning, while hiking Garstin, I too had a thought (everyone hold their applause, please.) Why not let the SAR folks decide whether Skyline should have summer closures? I'm serious. They are the ones who have to deal with the results, so why not get them altogether (online or physically), possibly including their spouses, and let them all vote on the matter? Even though their decision would not be legally binding, it would have moral force, and would at least influence the decision makers. If all the SAR folks say "close the trail during the summer" who are we to force them to keep rescuing folks? And if they all say "no, keep it open," then, well, so be it--let 'er rip. Let's cut the Gordian knot and put this decision in the hands of those who take the risks.

[Ed]

I agree with Zip. Charging a modest amount for rescues would probably damp down the number of rescue calls a great deal, once the word got around. It would send a message that people should be prepared for their hikes, and not make unnecessary calls for rescues. The amount would not have to cover the full cost of the rescue, a group of economists would have a great time arguing about what that is anyway. The $500 mentioned sounded about right to me.

[Perry]

Well, Now's the time to sound off with you suggestions to possibly not have a seasonal closure.
...
If many don't want a seasonal closure, then we need alternatives...

Maybe it will need to be closed in summer, but I hope it doesn't come down to that. Here's a few ideas.

The lower rescue station has ants. An airtight container would help. I've been thinking about leaving cold packs. Apparently they lower core body temperature when placed on cheeks. I have no idea what the upper rescue station is like, but I could leave stuff at the lower station if somebody else wants to carry it higher.

If the SAR groups allowed volunteers to be certified for class 2 searching only (you agree not to climb class 3,4,5) that would allow more people to volunteer. There's a few of us locals who could haul food and water up the mountain if it's not crazy hot just a little warm (evening and night), then carry someone down in a litter. This would eliminate the helicopter costs and give the regular SAR folks a break. Chances are, Otherhand has an opinion on the legal feasibility of this?

[Ed]

then carry someone down in a litter.

One day on Longs Peak in Colorado, a man coming down from the summit collapsed. We found him lying on the side of the trial, he could not move, and he could barely talk. A group of people collected around him. We sent a runner down the trail - it is a long trail - and then began carrying him down. We had no litter, but we had all the manpower in the world, and the trail was far better than the Skyline trail. I was amazed at how difficult it was. With six people at a time on the carry, we were taking turns every hundred yards or so. I've never had any illusions about carrying someone down a mountain since that experience.

Fortunately, a helicopter arrived in several hours. And it turned out he was suffering from hyperventilation, which is not a serious condition. Eventually you pass out, and when you come to you are fine. Another hiker and I had argued about whether he had pulmonary edema or hyperventilation, and the other hiker was right, I was wrong.

But you never know. Browsing the web a few years ago, I found that an old climbing acquaintance of mine had died on Longs Peak in 2009, when he was 61. He was climbing the peak with his daughter when a few hundred feet short of the summit he said 'I'm not feeling well', sat down on a rock, and died. When I knew Maynard, he was in the superfit category, very experienced, and a person of excellent judgment. Not everyone who dies in the mountains is a blundering fool.

[guest]

Interesting stories Ed, and agreed, many rescues are "legitimate" (if you will).

Today, Sat, the helo hovers up & down from 2k-4,500 ft. at about 1:30.
Ranger's in Long Valley we're busy dealing with a couple (or more), somewhere before Flat rock, (or right at it). Initial info is they started around, (wait for the drum roll), around 6am.

They we're out of water, (at 5,500 ft. everybody listening), one gal was not moving well, and hopefully they stayed put.

The couple I gave a ride back to Museum, after my rather warm, (even above 10k) climb to the peak, (conga lines of hikers), we're super fit, grew up in a hot & high altitude environment, and went up fine, even with very large packs, (training for JMT). But, one look at these two & you could tell they were not weekend warriors from cool climates like many that attempt Skyline.

So, their may be more than one incident going on today.
And this begs the question, with a large portion of the rangers & Sar's busy, and with droves of people, (many scouts, parents, and many other average walkers), what happens when those folks get in trouble. I will say I saw 4-5 orange shirt guys between LV & the summit, (was even asked for my permit), so good to see this guys doing a great service. Plus, if there is an issue, they within striking range.

Well, I guess if someone wants a firsthand testimony for a story, there should be a few in town at the moment.

BTW, I was watching the Lake Fire from San Jac, it seemed to be trying to works it's way west a bit, and, without any zoom, I saw what must have been a big tanker drop a huge load of retardant, was pretty cool.
ss

[neverwashasbeen]

Spoke with Tram employees after my trip to the summit today. Three have been rescued on Skyline today, one more is missing, believed to be disoriented and headed down.

[cynthia23]

Oh my God!!!! I 'jokingly' thought about bumping my 'don't do Skyline in the heat' post back up yesterday, but then thought, "Nah, no one would be crazy enough to climb Skyline on a day when THE TEMPS ARE 115 AND THERE'S A FREAKING FOREST FIRE!!"

Sorry for the caps, but I JUST CANNOT BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD BE SO PROFOUNDLY FOOLISH. This is horrible, insane, absolutely moronic!!

No more being P.C. ! No more being 'nice' about this! No more talk about people's 'freedom' and total freaking drap about 'man conquering nature'! Close the freaking trail in summer, with big-azz fines for violators, end of story!!!

And--let's not forget--let's keep a good thought for the poor soul who is apparently still on the trail. I hope he or she is found safely. What a horrible, horrible story. I have all the admiration in the world for the SAR folks who go out there under these conditions.

[bluerail]

One thing I've learned, when you touch this topic it usually doesn't end up good.

Drink fluids, stay within your limits.