Another idiot on Skyline!!!

[bluerail]

Miners cairns, sleeping circles, other man made formations old routes, they're historic now but they used to be just man made stuff..I love running across that stuff in the middle of nowhere.

I don't bother kicking cairns over, they don't throw me off , I hope generally we all know where we're going.

[Ed]

I'm afraid I agree with backpackpack. The desire to leave cairns is far greater than it once was, and I think reflects some human urge to leave their mark rather than any practical reason. I even see them in the nature preserve where I walk my dog. I think there are few cairns that have been there for many years. As for rock wind shelters, they are practical, but they were not on the summits of Baldy and San Gorgonio when I first started hiking them. Call me a hypocrite, I shelter in them when it's windy, but they are ugly and unnatural, and I wish they weren't there.

But we are talking about legitimate differences of opinion here, not the idiots or whatever you choose to call them who mark with spray paint and tape, knock down barriers and trail markers that serve an important purpose, etc.

[backpackpack]

I'm afraid I agree with backpackpack. The desire to leave cairns is far greater than it once was, and I think reflects some human urge to leave their mark rather than any practical reason. I even see them in the nature preserve where I walk my dog. I think there are few cairns that have been there for many years. As for rock wind shelters, they are practical, but they were not on the summits of Baldy and San Gorgonio when I first started hiking them. Call me a hypocrite, I shelter in them when it's windy, but they are ugly and unnatural, and I wish they weren't there.

But we are talking about legitimate differences of opinion here, not the idiots or whatever you choose to call them who mark with spray paint and tape, knock down barriers and trail markers that serve an important purpose, etc.

Spray paint!!! I can't believe people actually do this stuff! They really do not understand the dangerous behavior they are encouraging with their trail markers. I do not need to repeat it here, everyone knows why trail marking is bad.

[zippetydude]

To me it's all in the interpretationI guess. In general, I only see them in very high traffic areas anyway, and in those cases I really like them. In my mind, it's no different from someone building a sandcastle at the beach, and I like those too. If it were up on the peak of a mountain or out in some beautiful isolated area, I wouldn't really want them there. In fact, I think I would feel about like you in those situations. Ultimately, though, I don't view it as damage to the natural surroundings - it's nothing that can't easily be undone, unlike carving initials in trees, or painting dots everywhere along an obvious trail, or leaving litter. Those always get to me. But along trails that are busy with people anyway, a few kooky cleverly balanced cairns to me are fun to see.

Over the holidays I was out in Palm Desert and did the Bump n Grind. Bazillions of people, all in good spirits, a very friendly bunch. A great experience. About a month ago I made my first trip to Painted Canyon and explored a couple of the popular slot canyons. Tons of people, and there is a "garden" in the large, open canyon where lots of people had made those kooky cairns. Again, a great experience.

That being said, a couple weeks ago I went out and explored some of the lesser known slot canyons on a Sunday afternoon. I was well off the beaten path for several hours and saw no one in any of the canyons I explored. And not one cairn either. Another great experience. Just a different flavor.

Incidentally, I'm too busy running around exploring to stop and balance a pile of rocks, so I'm not one of the culprits. Then again I've had people irritated with me because I was running and "shouldn't be in such a hurry if I want to enjoy nature" . All in the interpretation, I guess.

z

[cynthia23]

Well, as you say Zip, there's a different flavor to different places. Certainly I enjoy seeing sandcastles on the beach But I think that generally I agree with backpackpack that the 'art rock piles' just annoy me, and I must admit, I get a certain enjoyment from knocking them down. About six months ago, someone actually put up a wooden SIGN advertising their art website at the rock cairn just past the picnic tables. Someone--I'm pretty sure it was me--uprooted it and threw it out. Unfortunately, it wasn't before someone else had spraypainted their initials on the rock face next to the sign. It really does seem that one thing leads to the next.

One of the oddest rock things I ever saw was several years ago on Skyline. Someone had balanced a series of VERY large rocks at various points next to the trail, in such a way that the slightest movement would knock them over and, I think, onto someone on the trail. Serious injury would have been the result--I'm talking hundred pound (or more) rocks. It must have taken major time and physical effort to set them up. They may have been intended as 'art', but they seemed to be actually some form of booby traps, and I definitely knocked all of them down. Those really gave me the creeps.

[backpackpack]

Well, as you say Zip, there's a different flavor to different places. Certainly I enjoy seeing sandcastles on the beach But I think that generally I agree with backpackpack that the 'art rock piles' just annoy me, and I must admit, I get a certain enjoyment from knocking them down. About six months ago, someone actually put up a wooden SIGN advertising their art website at the rock cairn just past the picnic tables. Someone--I'm pretty sure it was me--uprooted it and threw it out. Unfortunately, it wasn't before someone else had spraypainted their initials on the rock face next to the sign. It really does seem that one thing leads to the next.

One of the oddest rock things I ever saw was several years ago on Skyline. Someone had balanced a series of VERY large rocks at various points next to the trail, in such a way that the slightest movement would knock them over and, I think, onto someone on the trail. Serious injury would have been the result--I'm talking hundred pound (or more) rocks. It must have taken major time and physical effort to set them up. They may have been intended as 'art', but they seemed to be actually some form of booby traps, and I definitely knocked all of them down. Those really gave me the creeps.

We need to take this to the next level. Next time I see a kid making a sand castle at the beach I am going to put on my steel toed boots and kick it as hard as I can, lest he start building cairns along hiking trails in a few years

[Florian]

I knock down all the stupid little rock towers i see. They are graffiti. But cairns marking a valid route i usually leave. I suppose determining which are which is somewhat subjective.

-Florian

[backpackpack]

I knock down all the stupid little rock towers i see. They are graffiti. But cairns marking a valid route i usually leave. I suppose determining which are which is someone subjective.

-Florian

Hah! Hell yeah! I didn't want to come right out and say it, but so do I! Each little tower I knock down gives me a little jolt of joy.

And yeah, trail markers or anything put there by the rangers or forest service etc. I would never mess with.

[zippetydude]

Wow! I'm surprised we see them so differently! backpackpack, I hope you didn't think my sand castle analogy meant to say I thought I was right and you were wrong. I was just saying how I feel when I see these stone structure things. I'm actually quite fascinated that some people dislike them so much. halhiker has always expressed his dislike of any type of marking, but I thought that was probably just his personal sentiment. Seems quite a number of people share that feeling. Interesting.

z

[Florian]

About six months ago, someone actually put up a wooden SIGN advertising their art website at the rock cairn just past the picnic tables.

Cynthia, i know you're not on facebook but i got into quite a discussion/argument on fb with the guy that was putting up those signs. Some of you that follow me on fb saw this and added comments. (I removed the thread after it started getting nasty.) As far as i know he got bored putting up the daisies as i haven't seen any for a while now.

-Florian