State Park closure October 2007

[Davis2001r6]

I called the ranger office at Idyllwild and he said all the trails are closed and that I couldn't even hike up to the tram. Not sure of the validity of that, but thats what he said.

[zippetydude]

I think the validity is highly questionable.

I find that I run into people who are full of possibility, and those who are full of impossibility. You can guess where I'm going with this...

In any case, it will probably be irrelevant in a couple of days, as these things have a way of quickly resolving themselves once the winds go away. I wouldn't be surprised if the closures are removed (except for fire-impacted areas like Lake Arrowhead, etc.) in the very near future.


z

[AlanK]

I have no idea when things will re-open and I certainly hope for the best. In 2003, the ANF was closed from 10/27 - 11/7. The SBNF closed earlier and re-opened the same day. In 2004, the ANF was closed from 9/27 - 10/20.

One thing I do recall is that the fine for violating the closure was $5K in 2003. (No, I did not learn that in the obvious way.)

[Hikin_Jim]

If the tram is still running, then I don't think the State Park is completely closed.

To my understanding, the land immediately east of the State Park, i.e. the land the Skyline route is on, is neither USFS nor State Park land and therefore would not be affected by a closure order.

Question to all: who does own the land immediately east of Mt. SJ State Park? On my map, a lot of it says "ACIR" (Agua Caliente Indian Reservation) in sort of a checkerboard pattern, the remainder being, what, private? BLM?

[AlanK]

According to the map on the San Jacinto State Park Web site, the park extends a fair distance below the tram station to the north and east. In other words, you can't complete the Skyline hike without entering the State Park. Evidently, they are enforcing the closure more seriously this year than in some times past.

[guest]

Hi Alan, Jim, Z & the rest,

I believe the St Park extends down to about 6k ft, which is about as far up as the tribes land goes.

Another thing to consider, the winds may become onshore from the west, which may make our valley quite smokey soon.

The SP will probably be closed until the need for addtnl manpower is no longer needed, could be a week or more, is my guess.

[zippetydude]

Well, either that or the person on the phone didn't know what they were talking about and merely issued a blanket statement that had nothing to do with reality.

If the tram is open, it is not without the ranger's knowledge. Unless they have specifically prohibited anyone from leaving the upper tram station and setting foot on soil (which is entirely possible, but I have not heard that) then it seems unlikely that one could walk directly north, in the opposite direction of the closed area, and be in violation of the closure. I suppose that's possible, but it sounds more to me like a person full of themselves and impossibility answered the phone and gave an unreasonable answer to a very reasonable question.

I've had that kind of experienced before. Call someplace and get a terse, pointless policy answer by an automaton. Hang up, talk to a person who actually cares, and find out how to accomplish something correctly. Again, I may be wrong, but it sounds kind of like the first case here to me.

Thanks Alan, by the way, for the dates of the previous closures. That gives me some ballpark idea as to how long this will probably go. Man, you sure know your details!

z

[fishandcandy]

they have specifically prohibited anyone from leaving the upper tram station and setting foot on soil

Exactly.
They aren't issuing any permits and Long Valley is closed.
There are still Rangers in the park, so you'll still be able to get a ticket.

[zippetydude]

Interesting name!

If that's the case, I'm definitely with the program. If they really are asking us to stay out of the way at the moment, and that includes Skyline, so be it.

There are greater concerns at the moment (like supporting the fire crews and all the many people who have directly been displaced from their homes, or have lost their homes) than my own recreational desires. I think I should be able to keep busy for a few days without making a nuisance of myself. Let me see if I can find somebody to help...

See you all on the trails!

z

[Hikin_Jim]

Oh, so you can ride the tram, but can't set foot on the mountain, not even Long Valley? I was thinking that they woud let people into Long Valley as long as the tram was open. That's what they did in the fire closure in October of last year.

Interestingly, the tram website, at least as of this morning, makes no mention that there is any closure of any type. I guess "closed by State order due to extreme fire danger" isn't exactly the best marketing phrase* but it hardly seems ethical to say nothing.

I'm surprised that they make no mention at all. I would think there might be some backlash by tourists expecting to take a walk and shoot a few photos, etc.

*If I'm wrong, Zip, that one's all yours.