Suggestions for maintaining the boxes.

[bluerail]

out of town this weekend zip, but early next week ill talk to Doug and see how psmp feels about it, we did kick the idea around awhile back so i imagine theyre still good with it.

Chris, signs dont seem to mean much there.

[phydeux]

Haen't posted here in a while but here's an option for a lockIF you want to add a lock, how about a breakaway lock. They come in different sizes, and it'll prevent opportunists from getting in the boxes to cause any michief. The shackle breaks opens at those indent areas with a good downward whack from a hammer (don't know if a rock would work), or with a bar stuck through the shackle and given a good twist. Never done Skyline myself (not interested in it), but just thought I'd throw in my two cents. Cheers

[cynthia23]

I'm not convinced the boxes are really serving their intended purpose. I certainly agree with Florian that the only time they should be stocked--if at all--is during the summer months.

The basic problem is that there is no way to track whether or not anyone has been rescued by the boxes. I'm not sure how people are making the determination that the boxes have been raided by the merely lazy. I agree that's the most likely scenario, but isn't it possible that actually they were raided by people who were self-rescuing--in which case they are serving their intended purpose?

Personally, I don't think the boxes should be stocked at all (or should ever have been installed) because I don't think they solve the problem of unprepared hikers and I think it's quite unlikely they would actually save a distressed hiker. However, if they are going to be stocked at all, Florian is right that they should only be stocked during the summer.

[bluerail]

guaranteed they saved ( or greatly helped) at least three poeple in serious situations until help arrived. thats more than enough to mean something. and yes, its always summer.

there will always be those that misjudge their abilities and this short trail.

[Screerider]

there will always be those that misjudge their abilities and this short trail.

Exactly. That's not going to change with locks or dirt or.... A fools a fool. Been there, done that. That is what the water is for, to save the foolish.
They shouldn't be discouraged from taking it. While their condition may not be life and death as they approach the box, they still have a couple miles of heat to face. If they do make a wrong decision in taking the water, it's much better than making a wrong decision and not taking it. Who's counting how many unknown lives have been saved? We don't know those numbers.
With that, the rational for water boxes is about the same as that for the orange dots. We give up certain comforts at the trailhead. We leave the nanny state and our safety is not insured. For some odd reason I tend to prefer it that way.

[climbant]

Anything that is in place to save lives is ripe for abuse. For every 10 uses maybe one or two will be legitimate. If you don't want them messed with by the idiots, take em out. (The boxes that is, but either will do. )

[cynthia23]

Not sure what you mean by 'it's always summer', Steve. During the cool months (i.e. November through March) the likelihood of death by heat stroke and/or dehydration is low. Doesn't mean people won't get into trouble during those months by other means--exhaustion, falls, etc--but I'm not aware of any heat stroke cases occurring during these months. So why stock the boxes during this time?

Remember, there were many years with no boxes at all. It doesn't seem the overall rate of rescue calls has decreased. Again, it's not clear to me that the boxes are helping, or at least not helping enough. Nowadays, most people who get in trouble use their cell to summon emergency help, i.e. the RMRU, which usually arrives within ten hours. How will a water bottle or two help much? During the cooler months, no one will die of dehydration within ten hours. What is the likelihood a distressed hiker would happen to be at one of the two boxes, anyway?

Again--it was an extremely well-intentioned idea and I applaud the energy and altruism of those who labored to put them in--but I think it wasn't fully thought out, and it may be time to revisit/rethink the whole concept, especially given that folks like Steve are getting stressed and burned-out from the huge labor of keeping them stocked.

Screerider--you're right that in a way the boxes are similar to the orange dots.

[Robert Hunt]

If the boxes have made a life or death difference for even one person, what else matters? For those that it may have made a difference, I'm sure they didn't start out with the intention of depending on them. Cynthia...if you are at the point of having to call for help...I can only imagine that ten hours is anything but a life sentence!

[bluerail]

have there been any deaths since the boxes went in ?

I've only been around this trail for a short time, i havent seen it the way you guys that have been doing it for many many years have, you guys have seen it transform incredibly. im sorry for your loss of what used to be a quite wilderness journey. I do understand that desire. but it has changed and i think like so many things, if there can be some way to make an improvement in the way of saving even just one life then i see no reason to not do it. sorry to say it but this trail falls more in the category of a tourist attraction now than a wilderness adventure, but we still have so much wilderness nearby with the challenge being just as hard, its just not quite as convenient as skyline.

ive put in almost 4000 miles on this trail. it's been a big part of my life during these last 4 years or so. I have seen people die on it from heat or dehydration in that short period but im pretty sure none have died from either since the boxes went in. i continue to believe in them and there seems to be a group that agree and continue to carry the extra weight up the trail to keep them supplied, and im sure that matters greatly to the people they have helped.

[cynthia23]

Well, again, I want to emphasize I respect your heart and efforts, Steve. But you asked for our opinions and this is mine--the boxes are not worth the effort of stocking, or at least not from November through March.

I certainly agree with you that the trail is not the pristine wilderness it was. At the same time, it's certainly still a truly unique biome worth protecting. With the amount of heavy traffic it's now seeing, and the way it's becoming a kind of tourist attraction, I really think the only thing that's going to make a difference from a safety point of view (and from protecting it from more damage) is some agency taking it over and : 1.. restricting access via a permit system 2. A marked and controlled trail. 3. Somebody patrolling.

What we really need is the Skyline equivalent of a "Tahquitz Bob". Anybody else remember him? He was an old hippy who built a hut up in Tahquitz Canyon. When the Indians got around to cleaning the canyon up (it had been trashed by partyers), they hired Tahquitz Bob to be the watchman of the place, which he did, quite well. Eventually they turned him into an actual tribal ranger.

Anyone want to live on Skyline? Seems to me some already do !