Restricted Vivian Creek TH Access

[Perry]

I can only image the person who's unaware of the gate being locked, comes down from a long day on the mountain only to find his/her car locked inside the parking area, not going to be fun.

Patrick/Lilbitmo

I would also imagine that it would be a violation of your civil rights.

Keep a hacksaw in your car. Or a portable grinder. Or a dremel tool and power inverter.

Camera surveillance is cheap these days. There's no reason any agency can't afford it, unless they only buy from certain suppliers that charge high prices.

[tarol]

Actually the last visitor use survey showed use up - 2.5 million visitors a year on this forest. We have a huge population base that lives very close to this forest, so rest assured use isn't going down anytime soon.

The appropriations increase that Andy Stahl proposes would go directly to the three affected agencies, as Kathy Wing posted

[tarol]

I can only image the person who's unaware of the gate being locked, comes down from a long day on the mountain only to find his/her car locked inside the parking area, not going to be fun.

Patrick/Lilbitmo

It's very clearly marked at the entrance to the picnic area about when the gate gets closed

[tarol]

I'm all for the fees. I'm all for the gates. I've seen the mess, the unsanitary conditions. We all have.
If issued with a wilderness pass, access cards would provide the policing needed. With a little technology, permits could be automatic. They would know when you entered and when you left.

I think this is a great idea - either access cards, or providing a gate code (probably easier and cheaper). It would keep people out who do bad things, but let the folks in who are just hiking. Win/win.

[Screerider]

Wasn't there a mention of a camp host? Someone with the power to open a gate in an emergency?
To demand that gates be torn down without some sort of fix is honestly somewhat selfish.
While some think the forest needs more visitors, and some feel it needs less, they're both right. What the forest needs is more responsible visitors.
While it may not be the king's forest, Robin Hood was a poacher and a pig.
It's time for some to revisit "the tragedy of the commons" for a refresher.
While we demand our rights to access, we lose our rights to a clean forest.
A recent trip to the Kern really brought this home for me. The place is not only a pigsty, it is also unsanitary from feces. Whitewater Trout Farm, once blocked from the public, now has a problem with dog droppings.
Rather than starting polls, and sending complaints about how the world is so unfair to us as individuals, why not dive in and deal with the true violations? If there was not a problem, there would be no gates. Deal with the problem, not the gates.
On the face this may appear a separate issue from fees and passes. It really isn't. They can be valuable tools in curbing destruction while providing funds for needed personal. There are some out there with better ideas, better solutions. I just wish that they would speak up. If we solve one problem, other solutions will fall in line. How do we stop the abuse?

[Perry]

Normally, I don't believe in damaging public property. But, if I rolled an ankle, pulled a muscle, or broke a bone and came hobbling back at midnight....yes, I would break the lock or break the gate. I don't think there's cell phone reception there. Never heard of a camp host, but if there is somebody you can talk to in the middle of the night, I would do that instead.

If people know they are on camera, they are less likely to vandalize or leave garbage everywhere. And if they do, the forest service would have their license plate and visual identification. I suppose the fines would get dumped into the general CA fund, but if that were changed to fund parks it would provide a good incentive for enforcement.

[Hikin_Jim]

I'm all for the fees. I'm all for the gates. I've seen the mess, the unsanitary conditions. We all have.
If issued with a wilderness pass, access cards would provide the policing needed. With a little technology, permits could be automatic. They would know when you entered and when you left.

I think this is a great idea - either access cards, or providing a gate code (probably easier and cheaper). It would keep people out who do bad things, but let the folks in who are just hiking. Win/win.

A gate code or access card would indeed be ideal.

HJ

[Screerider]

I'm all for the fees. I'm all for the gates. I've seen the mess, the unsanitary conditions. We all have.
If issued with a wilderness pass, access cards would provide the policing needed. With a little technology, permits could be automatic. They would know when you entered and when you left.

I think this is a great idea - either access cards, or providing a gate code (probably easier and cheaper). It would keep people out who do bad things, but let the folks in who are just hiking. Win/win.

A gate code or access card would indeed be ideal.

HJ

Access cards might be a little futuristic. They would work to keep track of permits. Gate codes would admittedly be the simplest. Coupled with a not too overly strict "no nighttime loitering" policy to keep troublemakers out. While the codes could be handed out with the permits, concessions would be needed for those doing Mill Creek. Abusers of the system would loose their Adventure pass or deposit.
Big brother in the wilderness, an oxymoron for sure. To some degree, if we want to keep the wilderness, I'm not sure we have a choice.

[Hikin_Jim]

Screerider makes a good point that not everyone who uses that trail head will have a permit. If you go straight up Mill Creek to MCJO or anything up Yucaipa Ridge, you're not going to pull a permit.

HJ

[Ellen]

Howdy All

I've received excellent suggestions from an individual who worked in the San Gorgonio Ranger district in Fire for 20 years. He suggested taking the complaint (restricted trailhead access) up the chain of command:

Alfredo Zarate, Assistant Recreation Officer
Melinda Lyon, Recreation Officer
Gabe Garcia, District Ranger
Jody Noiron, Forest Supervisor
Randy Moore, Regional Forester
Tom Tidwell, Chief

Hikin' Jim has already given us contact info for Mr. Garcia.

Mr. Gabe Garcia, District Ranger
United States Forest Service
34701 Mill Creek Road
Mentone, CA 92359
(909) 382-2851

I'll have to look up contact information for the other folks.

If the chain is unresponsive, move on to congressional representatvies.

I'd like to have 200 signatures before starting the writing compaign.

Miles of smiles and thanks,
Ellen