Restricted Vivian Creek TH Access

[Hikin_Jim]

I think we're getting our issues tangled up here. They're related, but there are two separate issues:
1. The gate at the Vivian Creek Trailhead
2. The Adventure Pass/fee system

This thread is about the gate. I think it would be helpful to take up the larger issue of the Adventure Pass and fees elsewhere.

That said, the main issue I see with the gate is threefold:
1. Safety
2. Safety
3. Safety

Seriously.

And here's why:
1. Safety. Closing that gate at the oddball hours that it's closed puts people in harm's way. Why on earth would people want to wait until after 6:00 A.M. if they want to summit San Gorgonio Mountain? Sure, really fast hikers can start that late and get away with it, but what about average people (like me)? There's no way I can start that late and be safe, i.e. back by dark. Descending is when most accidents happen, and I don't want to be going down Vivian in the dark when I'm tired. What's that? "You shouldn't be on the Vivian Creek Trail if you're an average, normal hiker." Hey, great, and why don't we rip out the handicapped parking too while were at it? "Wilderness only for the elite" is not an acceptable policy.

2. Safety. What frequently happens in the afternoon in summer? Lightning. Surely you've heard tho old mountain adage "off the peak by noon; lightning comes soon. Down low by two before it gets you." And how is one going to get down relatively low by 2:00 P.M. if one has to wait until 6:00 A.M. to start? Well, of course, you can't. And who's legally liable if someone gets zapped and the Forest Service requires an inordinately late (i.e. after 6:00 A.M.) start?

3. Safety. As mentioned in the previous post, people will now be racing the clock to get back from long hikes. They'll be taking on more risk. Examples:
3a.Lightning going on? Too bad. No time for safe practices. Better leave that copse of trees and go out into the open or you'll get locked in for the night.
3b. A little tired? Need a rest? Oops, sorry, no time for that; you'll get locked in. And so a tired hiker stumbles, an injury results, and you've got a SAR call out.
3c. A little confused? Need to double check that map? Oops, no time for that. Oh well, now you're lost. Can't happen? Really? Go Google the name "Jared Negrete." What's that? He was just a boy? Really? Well, how about that woman who was found after several days in Raywood Flat a couple of years ago? My point in item 3 is simply this: You don't want people to feel so time pressured that they start making decisions based on time rather than safety.

Of course, wanting to protect the trailhead and surrounding area from vandals is a worthy objective. It's just that the oddball hours that the gate will be locked are a safety hazard. They've already extended the lock time two hours in the evening (from 8:00 to 10:00 P.M.). Why not simply do the same in the morning? Simply, opening the gate two hours earlier (i.e. at 4:00 AM) would address a lot of the safety concerns without unduly opening up the trialhead and vicinity to vandalism -- I doubt very seriously that vandals are the self-disciplined type to be getting up early in the morning.

While protecting the trailhead and environs is important, safety is too. Let's strike a reasonable and prudent balance between the two. A late, 6:00 A.M., opening is just a bad -- and unnecessary -- idea.

HJ

[lilbitmo]

David Whiting responded a second time.

I asked him to consider looking into the gate issue as the primary objective.

He responded by saying "it's on the calendar" I'm assuming he means he'll get to it, but he was real frank with me that he's slammed but by putting it on the calendar he will turn his attention to it and look into it deeper. Like us he feels it's not a fair or good thing, it creates a safety issue and doesn't allow free access like most other trails/trail heads.

I also sent him a copy of the petition, if he writes a piece or shares with others than it may help take this to the next level, who knows.

Getting the word out to those that don't follow the discussion boards is important in that they may not know that others feel the same way.

I can only image the person who's unaware of the gate being locked, comes down from a long day on the mountain only to find his/her car locked inside the parking area, not going to be fun.

Patrick/Lilbitmo

[climbant]

I can only image the person who's unaware of the gate being locked, comes down from a long day on the mountain only to find his/her car locked inside the parking area, not going to be fun.

Patrick/Lilbitmo

I would also imagine that it would be a violation of your civil rights.

[tarol]

Checkout the latest National Forest Foundation poll -- 72% of Americans support more funding for the NF's even if it means a small increase in taxes

[Hikin_Jim]

Checkout the latest National Forest Foundation poll -- 72% of Americans support more funding for the NF's even if it means a small increase in taxes

Interesting, and I think good news.

Of course there is declining visitation, from what I've read, at America's natural sites. Of course gating things off at hours when the public would want access encourages not increased visitation. Something to think about when one considers whether or not such poll numbers will hold up over time.

HJ

[lilbitmo]

Ellen, the online petition is showing that we have the required number of signatures, please let me know what we need to do next and if you need any assistance.

Thanks Patrick/lilbitmo

[Ellen]

Yo Lilbitmo

I'd to get even more than 100. I'd also like to submit the USDA complaint form (an individual on the San G bulletin board said he'd e-mail me a copy).

I've been encouraged to contact John Miller San Bernardino N.F. public information officer at 909-382-2788 to ask why the gate is there.
The individual who contacted me said to mention the many comments of complaints that I've heard so he won't "brush me off."

Per Kathy Wing:
While the forest service may have the authority to close a picnic area between 10 PM and 6 AM, they are ignoring the fact that the parking lot is used for BOTH trailhead parking and for the picinc area.

We can also call Gabe Garcia, District Ranger, at (909) 382-2851. How was the forest service able to get the authority to close off a trailhead? The more people that call and complain, the better.

Miles of smiles,
Ellen

[Ellen]

Howdy All

If you support the petition, please share it with your hiking friends and hiking clubs.

If you use Facebook and support the petition, please share the link:

http://www.change.org/petitions/us-depa ... orest-fall


Miles of smiles and thanks,
Ellen

[Hikin_Jim]

I couldn't get the online petition to work.

I plan to send a physical letter to:

Mr. Gabe Garcia, District Ranger
United States Forest Service
34701 Mill Creek Road
Mentone, CA 92359
(909) 382-2851

HJ

[climbant]

A tax increase will not help the USFS, it will only be squandered elsewhere. I agree that visitation is down, but going to federal lands is becoming expensive and complicated, that turns away a lot of people especially those that would choose to vacation there.