Idyllwild -> San Jacinto Day Hike - Questions!!

[Phantasie]

Hi Everyone

I made my first trip to Palm Springs with my family several months ago. We took the tram and were completely blown away by the ruggedness of Mount Jacinto. How people do the C2C simply amazes me.

That said, I'd like to hike at least some of this mountain.

My plan is as follows:
- Stay the night in Idyllwild (to partially acclimatize)
- Get up reasonably early (8am?)
- Go the Ranger station for map and permit
- Park at Deer Springs Trail
- Follow Deer Springs -> PCT -> Little Round Valley -> Summit.
- My return plan (based on maps and trails) would be down through Wellmans Divide -> PCT -> Strawberry Junction -> Deer Springs Trail.
- Rejoice

I have plenty of questions and I would greatly appreciate the feedback (and suggestions) of the many knowledgeable members here!

Notes:
- I hike ~3 plus hours, twice, on most weekends. (Last week I did 5 hours on the PCT Campo in 95 degree weather, albeit it was tough)
- I cycle 20 miles most week nights
- I periodically do centuries or other long distance cycling
- Work out most weekdays for an hour
- I'm in reasonable shape (but not a fine physical specimen by any means).

Am I crazy to want to do this?

How much water should I bring?

Is this reasonable to do in a day?

What should a newbie to this hike bring in his backpack?

Are the trails and junctions clearly (relatively) marked? Any sections to watch where you could get off the trail?

If anyone is familiar with Cowles Mountain in SDG, how would you compare the grades, on average?

It looks fairly warm in Idyllwild right now. What should my clothing be? My plan was either tearaway cargos, or possible cargos and a pair of shorts for backup in my backpack. Then a long sleeve breathable top and a light cycling jacket. I will bring my backpack

What would you expect the temperature to be at the top?

How exposed is this trail? Is the sun going to be a factor?

The trail up seems popular based on other board posts. What about the trail back the I'm proposing (I based it off this map: http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/636/files/MtSanJacintoSPmap.pdf

Do you propose another route?

Any other advice, comments, etc?

Thanks!

[neverwashasbeen]

Phantasie, you ask a lot of questions. I'm sure that you can do the route you propose, it may be a full day, but that's a good thing. You didn't mention when you were wanting to do this, that will make a big difference on temps and related considerations.

[Phantasie]

haha I know - typically I would just go out and do this using reasonable judgement - but after reading the countless skyline and c2c death/rescue stories on here, it got me thinking twice (even though I know Deer Springs and those are completely different hikes).

Planning in the next week or two weather wise.

[Wildhorse]

The grade is similar overall to the grade on the Golfcrest Trail or Barker Trail at Cowles Mountain, steeper in places than the Barker Trail and less steep, in almost all places, than the fire road.

Considering your fitness, you sound fit enough for the hike. I imagine the hike would be similar to a century on your bike, or maybe a little harder, depending on the hills in the century. I imagine you will feel quite tired after the hike, not just from the exertion, but from the exposure to the elements at high altitude. Your planned hike is harder than most people can do comfortably in a day, but then so is a century in the sun. The high altitude adds to the physical stress.

Personally, I would take 3 to 4 liters of water/liquids for the hike, including some electrolytes, because you will have much sun exposure and the days are warm now. What else to pack depends mostly on your desire to avoid risk. Friends of mine who have spent unexpected nights out in the wilderness carry much more with them than I do.

I think spending the night in Idyllwild might help some with getting used to the altitude, although I read that it is best to climb high during the day and then sleep lower at night. I think coming up early on the day before and spending the day there, doing a short hike to gain some additional altitude, will help more than spending the night would. On my second day in the mountains, the altitude does affect me less than on the first. It gets even better after that.

I think right now portions of the trails you want to hike may be closed because of the recent fires.

The trail junctions are marked, but some of the signs are confusing. A map and a compass, may help you avoid making a wrong turn at trail junctions. A GPS is the safest way to navigate up there. The trails are easy to follow, but other than signs at junctions are not marked.

This time of year, I mostly hike in a t-shirt, and carry a long sleeve hiking shirt and light jacket with me. I generally carry a little warmer jacket or thermal layer just in case things turn out colder than I expect, (or my trip lasts longer than I expect) but I seldom wear it. My wife, always dresses more warmly than I do. I have found trail runners to be fine in the San Jacinto Wilderness.

The Wilderness, as you know, is quite beautiful and peaceful and more than that. No one is crazy to want to take a long walk through its forest.

As you may already know, the nicest route to Idyllwild from San Diego is 15 to 79 South, to 371, to 74, to 243. A couple of good places to stay in Idyllwild are the Idyllwild Inn, which is right in the village, and the Quiet Creek Inn which is in an even more idyllic location. A popular restaurant is Aroma Cafe. The food is good, but not very healthy. It is probably better for the night after the hike than for the night before.

[bluerail]

sometimes "not healthy" is so worth it !

[Ulysses]

That's a great hike, but I believe the PCT between Wellmans and Strawberry Jct. is closed. At least it was when I was there last Sunday. You'll probably have to hike back down Deer Springs. Day use permits for the State Wilderness are self issue at the State Park HQ. You can pick one up the night before your hike. Looking at the forecast for Sunday you might want to bring a poncho or rain coat. Have fun. Might see you on the trail.

[guest]

Hi Phantasie,

Good for you to ask for advice, even if your more than capable of doing this hike on your own.
As Ulysses mentioned, the PCT is closed from Saddle Jct over to Wellman's Divide, so your only options for the peak are Deer Springs, Marion Mt. (steep, rugged & a tough downhill on tired legs), and 7 Pines, which also have steep sections, and many areas where good navigation are required, since it gets little use, and requires a 1 1/2 mile good dirt rd drive.
Once you reach Strawberry Jct., you'll have to turn left (north), if my info from state park is correct, and connect with Marion & 7 Pines, then to Little Round Valley CG & to the peak. After LRV, that side of the mt. got hammered pretty good during the July flash flood, so lots of rocks & washouts.

I think the others suggestion on gear is good, I bring an extra dry poly-pro type layer, a wind shell, a good, breathable, full-brimmed hat, and some natural bug spray, (I avoid deet), as some areas have nats.
The usual duct tape, mole or 2nd skin, oxygen (just kiddin), hiking poles if you use them. I don't see the need for pants, but zip-offs are nice if the wx moves in, like it has been a bit at higher elevations. Lots of snacks & maybe a sandwich for the peak.

Temps have been warm up there, 70's or better, even at the peak, a jacket wasn't needed, so I'd look at getting an early start (7 or 8am on the trail), as the forest is way nicer on that side (west) in the morning.
I'd figure a good 8 hrs., (approx. 14 miles rt), unless you hoof-it with few breaks.

I'd bring a gallon, with some electrolytes, as suggested, (I've been bring a bit less than 100 ozs and running out close to the end.
Bring a map & compass as suggested, gps is good too, and you should be fine if you pay attention.

Have fun, be safe, it's a great hike,
S2
Self issue permits should be available outside ranger sta. (maybe go there as soon as you get to Idyllwild.

[zippetydude]

Hi Everyone

How people do the C2C simply amazes me.

That said, I'd like to hike at least some of this mountain.

Based upon your activity level, seems like you might want to come back in October and hike Skyline as well! Your family could take the tram and meet you at the upper tram station. It's wonderfully satisfying to stand at the railing at the tram station and look back down to the desert floor where you started, and it would probably be fun to share that first time with your family. Just a thought.

BTW, lest I appear to be trying to talk you into it, I should mention that in my experience Skyline is roughly equivalent to running a marathon. Another cyclist - Lance Armstrong - was in the paper after running the New York Marathon. Here's an excerpt from an article.

"No Alpine climb on his bicycle had ever been as tough as Sunday's New York City Marathon, he said.

"For the level of condition that I have now, that was without a doubt the hardest physical thing I have ever done," said Armstrong, who finished 856th."

Since you're an avid hiker you already understand the different muscles used and the way being on your feet can wear you down. Skyline definitely has that impact. Still, it's a lot of fun! Good luck with your current adventure.

z

[Norris]

Deer springs trail from Hwy 243 to the summit and back is a long day (20 miles if I recall correctly). If you are fit it is no problem but definitely a long day.

[Phantasie]

Thanks for the responses everyone - really appreciated!

I did the hike this past weekend - the report post is here

http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic.php?t=4287

and the blog write up is here

http://candiegohiker.blogspot.com/

While the trail knocked the hell out of me Saturday, I was completely back to normal the next day on Sunday (apart from two blisters) - so much so that I did a 2+ hour hike up Cowels mountain and out to Piles Peak in 90+ degree weather.

@zippety - I appreciate the vote of confidence, but if I had trouble with Deer Springs, I can certainly tell that I'm not ready for Skyline yet. But, damn, it would be fun to do!

@guest I brought 90 ozs + 32 Gatorade. I drank liberally (probably a tad more than necc) on the way up, and ran out 1/2 mile from bottom. It wasn't a big deal. I think I brought the right amount (what I had already felt like a rock on my back at the start)

@wildhorse I found it tougher than the century (I mostly do metric centuries, but I have done a 115 mile once). This was worse (but not significantly) than the 115 mile bike ride.[/url]