How did terrain trap hikers?

[Sally]

How very sad about the man and his sons. My condolances to their family and friends. Eagle11772, I feel you are being overly judgemental and harsh. They do get my sympathy, but I find it unfortunate that they underestimated the power of nature.

As the man was a Boyscout, I am surprised that he wasn't more prepared. I think his lack of the 10 essentials (or 10,000 essentials, as Hilin Jim would have had) played a larger part in his demise than his lack of electronic devices.

I always carry a Spot locating device, a celphone, and a GPS on my hikes, but I don't depend on them to save me in the event that something goes wrong. I carry enough junk to hopefully survive the night if I have to.

I think that meerly taking those devices along can give a hiker a false sence of security. One should also be prepared.

[SoCalJim]

eagle11772: Are you serious?

[eagle11772]

How very sad about the man and his sons. My condolances to their family and friends. Eagle11772, I feel you are being overly judgemental and harsh. They do get my sympathy, but I find it unfortunate that they underestimated the power of nature.

As the man was a Boyscout, I am surprised that he wasn't more prepared. I think his lack of the 10 essentials (or 10,000 essentials, as Hilin Jim would have had) played a larger part in his demise than his lack of electronic devices.

I always carry a Spot locating device, a celphone, and a GPS on my hikes, but I don't depend on them to save me in the event that something goes wrong. I carry enough junk to hopefully survive the night if I have to.

I think that meerly taking those devices along can give a hiker a false sence of security. One should also be prepared.

Perhaps I was misunderstood here by some. I did NOT mean to imply that those electronic devices are the ONLY essential safety items that one should bring, but rather that they are some of the essential safety items, along with many other essential safety items, that one SHOULD bring. Why would one NOT bring a celfone, a GPS reciever, and a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) ?

[eagle11772]

eagle11772: Are you serious?

Yes.

[guest]

The origin of this thread was referring to 2 tourist on a corp. 'junket" which offered a short time at the top of the tram.
I've been involved with many of these, although these are supervised, and the one in this case was not, at least not down in the forest, which was a error.
To assume all people out for a short hike, or to reguire anyone hiking in the immediate area of the tram, or other tourist type areas to have 3 electronic devises is unrealistic, cost prohibitive for many, and the resources to manage, monitor and police it, don't exist. This topic has been discussed in detail previously on this board.

Many of us in this area that have hiked in these wilderness for decades, don't carry these, that's our right, you can call us what ever you like, but there's more than one way to survive in the wilderness. To mandate this attitude of big brother on everyone, because some people believe it's THE WAY to saves lives, is, in my opinion, similar to demanding everyone get vaccinated for any possible illness, when it's my right to refuse.
It is a good idea, and is now required, I believe, in rugged areas, tough terrain prone to severe weather, where rescue's are common.

I agree that these devises can be a big help in many situations, but they also can give people a false sense of security, and, as we've seen, allow people to "Call of Help", as soon as their hot coco runs out. Then, many of the SAR's go out to "rescue" them, at great cost & risk. Yes, some that were prepared get in trouble or get injured or lost, but many, like the yahoo who's been rescued 3 TIMES in the San Jacinto's, cause some SAR's volunteers to finally quit.

The 2 folks who survived did what they could to survive, and they did a pretty good job, (although the forest could have been burned heavily).
They must have had good Karma to find John Donovan's pack, (and yes, maybe he might have been rescued if he had one of these devises), but who knows, some people are extremely hard-headed and what to get out on their own, so attempt the dangerous, instead of pushing the button for help.
Several posters on this thread, (some members of SAR's) did a great job of explaining how easy it can be for tourists or 1 time visitors on a casual hike to get in trouble.

Happy hiking,
ss

[bluerail]

I can spell cell phone !!

and i got a flu shot

and when your having the most fun, satellites cant find you.

hey Scotty !

[eagle11772]

The origin of this thread was referring to 2 tourist on a corp. 'junket" which offered a short time at the top of the tram.
I've been involved with many of these, although these are supervised, and the one in this case was not, at least not down in the forest, which was a error.
To assume all people out for a short hike, or to reguire anyone hiking in the immediate area of the tram, or other tourist type areas to have 3 electronic devises is unrealistic, cost prohibitive for many, and the resources to manage, monitor and police it, don't exist. This topic has been discussed in detail previously on this board.

Many of us in this area that have hiked in these wilderness for decades, don't carry these, that's our right, you can call us what ever you like, but there's more than one way to survive in the wilderness. To mandate this attitude of big brother on everyone, because some people believe it's THE WAY to saves lives, is, in my opinion, similar to demanding everyone get vaccinated for any possible illness, when it's my right to refuse.
It is a good idea, and is now required, I believe, in rugged areas, tough terrain prone to severe weather, where rescue's are common.

I agree that these devises can be a big help in many situations, but they also can give people a false sense of security, and, as we've seen, allow people to "Call of Help", as soon as their hot coco runs out. Then, many of the SAR's go out to "rescue" them, at great cost & risk. Yes, some that were prepared get in trouble or get injured or lost, but many, like the yahoo who's been rescued 3 TIMES in the San Jacinto's, cause some SAR's volunteers to finally quit.

The 2 folks who survived did what they could to survive, and they did a pretty good job, (although the forest could have been burned heavily).
They must have had good Karma to find John Donovan's pack, (and yes, maybe he might have been rescued if he had one of these devises), but who knows, some people are extremely hard-headed and what to get out on their own, so attempt the dangerous, instead of pushing the button for help.
Several posters on this thread, (some members of SAR's) did a great job of explaining how easy it can be for tourists or 1 time visitors on a casual hike to get in trouble.

Happy hiking,
ss

1. To suggest that everyone carry a celfone and a gps reciever with them when they leave their home is niether unreasonable, nor cost-prohibitive. My smartphone has a GPS app on it, and I NEVER leave my home without my celfone, even to go a block to the grocery store.

2. A Garmin GPS reciever is about $50 on ebay, and it is small and lightweight, so once again I disagree with you that it is expensive.

3. I purchased a Personal Locator Beacon on ebay 2 years ago for $98 It weighs about a pound or so. Once again, NOT expensive, nor bulky nor bothersome to carry.

4. How is it "big brother" to carry these devices ? In general, the government is not tracking your celfone moment by moment, nor is the government even aware you are carrying a PLB with you until you activate it. And you ONLY activate it in an immediate life-threatening EMERGENCY. And if you DO activate your PLB for a rescue, you DO want some government action there to save your life, don't you ? So please explain how that is "big brotherism". (And btw, I'm a Libertarian, and a STRONG supporter of the Second Amendment, if you get what I mean).

And since you believe that it is easy "for tourists or 1 time visitors on a casual hike to get in trouble", then ALL THE MORE REASON to ALWAYS carry a celfone AND a gps reciever, and if you go hiking, camping, or into a wilderness area, ALWAYS carry a PLB.

Your arguments against doing so are nonsensical and put people's life in danger if they follow your foolish advice.

A celfone, GPS reciever, and a PLB, are all lightweight, and all TOGETHER cost less than $200. Is a human life NOT worth more than $200 ? !

If you leave your home without a celfone and GPS reciever on your person, and a PLB in your vehicle, and if you do not carry these 3 items with you when you venture even the smallest distance from civilization, then you are an IDIOT. And if you wind up in a life-threatening situation because of your foolishness, then you will get NO SYMPATHY from me, nor should you get it from anyone else.

Are we all not supposed to be safety-conscious FIRST ? !

And once again, I did not say, nor mean to imply, that these 3 items are the ONLY things you should carry with you when venturing out into the wilderness.

There is NO reason not to carry these 3 near-miraculous small electronic devices with you at all times when away from civilization since they are for SAFETY and could possibly SAVE THE LIFE of you, or a companion.

[HikeUp]

Blame the GPS or the gun? Or the idiot(s)?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57566488-71/man-allegedly-follows-gps-directions-to-wrong-house-shot-dead/

Man allegedly follows GPS directions to wrong house; shot dead

Friends say a man in his early 20s was picking up one more of their group to go skating, when his GPS took him to the wrong house and the home-owner allegedly shot him dead, later saying he feared a home invasion.

by Chris Matyszczyk | January 29, 2013 4:31 PM PST

According to friends of Rodrigo Diaz, they were all going ice skating. Diaz was driving the car, and they were going to pick up one more skater.

They pulled into a driveway, which their GPS -- at least, according to one of the friends -- told them was their destination.

Then, as WSB-TV Atlanta explains, this tale took a troubling turn.

According to Yeson Jimenez, 15, one of the passengers, Diaz pulled into a driveway; then 69-year-old Phillip Sailors peered out of a window of the house.

He allegedly came out, went back inside, then emerged again, firing a gun into the air.

Jimenez says Sailors said nothing to them but "Shut up!"

Jimenez insists they tried to drive away and that as they did, Sailors fired his .22 gun and shot Diaz fatally in the head.

Sailors has been charged with murder with malice.

Lilburn, Ga., Police Chief Bruce Hedley told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: "At this point we have established probable cause to charge Mr. Sailors."

Sailors' lawyer, Michael Puglise, told the Journal-Constitution: "He is very distraught over the loss of life from the defense of his home. This incident happened late in the evening hours when he was home with his wife and he assumed it was a home invasion and he maintains his innocence."

Among the unknowns is whether the GPS was simply programmed to the wrong address or whether it might have been in some way faulty.

Another question that might arise in some minds is that if Sailors was, indeed, defending himself, how is it that he allegedly shot a man who was reportedly driving away from his house?

Fox 5 in Atlanta offered some semblance of evidence that tire marks at the scene suggested a car that was in the process of turning away.

[zippetydude]

I NEVER leave my home without my celfone, even to go a block to the grocery store.
Your arguments against doing so are nonsensical and put people's life in danger if they follow your foolish advice.

If you leave your home without a celfone and GPS reciever on your person, and a PLB in your vehicle, and if you do not carry these 3 items with you when you venture even the smallest distance from civilization, then you are an IDIOT. And if you wind up in a life-threatening situation because of your foolishness, then you will get NO SYMPATHY from me, nor should you get it from anyone else.

Rather trollish posts, I would say. Guest spoke reasonably and understood both sides of the issue. He called no names and made no harsh judgments of others. Most of us on this board conduct ourselves in a polite and civil manner. Whoever you are, eagle11772, if you can't find your way to the grocery store and back without a GPS, perhaps being polite is also above your capacity. But perhaps not. Please give it a try.

z

[Zé]

I think that when you check in with a ranger before ventureing into the wilderness, the ranger SHOULD REQUIRE YOU to have these 3 devices with you.

How did you manage to get out of your padded cell??