LA Times: Long Valley Ice Skating Rink & People Mover

[Hikin_Jim]

Has anyone heard anything lately about the proposed ice skating rink at the top of the tram? An LA Times article is quoted in the "Southern California Mountains" topic on the Whitney forum: http://www.mt-whitney.info/viewtopic.php?p=9606#9606

There's also a proposal to build a "people mover" from the upper tram station down to Long Valley so people can avoid the long cement walkway.

If you've got any updates on these, please post!!

[Perry]

I'm still waiting to hear back from the state park, but I'll post here once I get an official answer. I've been emailing them recently to find out the status. Looks like I may need to make a few phone calls...

It does bother me that I could never find anything in The Desert Sun that covered this issue. That's not to say I'm 100% sure they didn't briefly mention it somewhere, just that I could never find any mention of it, nor have I heard of any local publications discussing the people mover or ice skating rink proposals.

[zippetydude]

I saw the post and thought, "That Jim, ever the practical joker...", then I realized you were serious when I opened the thread. Is it me, or is it just a little out of the ordinary to build an escalator in an area designated as wilderness? Where does the boundary go? I thought it went along the ridge line.

On the other hand, the ice skating could be kind of pretty in the winter with snow all around an outdoor rink, especially if the rink is unobtrusive and tastefully done. Hmmm, that's still gonna be a bit tricky. And what do you do with it in the summer? Maybe bury it with pine needles for 9 months of the year?

Well, I guess we'll see. Thanks for the post.

z

[Hikin_Jim]

I saw the post and thought, "That Jim, ever the practical joker...",

Yeah, that was about my reaction too: "You've got to be kidding."

As for what's Wilderness and what's not, the portion of Long Valley below the tram is NOT part of the Wilderness and does not require a permit. The Ranger Station is in the Wilderness. Once you pass the Ranger Station, you do need a permit.

All of the above were originally in the Wilderness, but the area at the foot of the Mountain Station was "de-zoned" for the tram. I'd be very opposed to any further de-zoning.

I have less of an objection to the people mover and more of an objection to an ice skating rink, although I'm opposed to both. The people mover would incur construction, a typically degrading thing to do in a wilderness, but, provided that it didn't go any further into the Wilderness than the de-zoned area, it wouldn't be all that much of an impact -- the tram is alreaady there, and it's the tram that really provides the access.

The skating rink on the other hand is an attraction. I don't think we should be building attractions in an access point to a Wilderness Area. If people come up to picnic, hike, climb, backpack, snowshoe, etc, they're using the tram to in some way experience the natural environment. To build an attraction means that we are now drawing people to a sensitive environment when there's really no interest on their part in the wild lands themselves. Rather than attract people to a sensitive area, why not build rinks elsewhere? If you want to skate in a mountain environment, why not build one in Idyllwild? I'm opposed to any thing that would attract people to a wilderness when the wilderness isn't what they're coming for.

Phew! I've got to quit climbing on that dang soap box of mine.

[AlanK]

The People Mover/Ice Rink proposal was made about 4 years ago. Here is a discussion that predates the LA Times article (the article that leads off the thread that was referenced at the start of this thread) by about 2 years. Dare we hope that the idea died?

Mount San Jacinto Winter Park Authority (MSJWPA), the public non-profit that operates the Palm Springs Aerial Tramway has proposed to The Mt San Jacinto State Park (State Park) several development "projects" that would dramatically change the character of the Long Valley area.

These projects are being promoted on the grounds that they would enhance the experience of visitors, provide protection to sensitive areas, allow metering of crowd management, and allow for an additional form of recreation. These proposals include:

1. A "people mover" system that would carry people up and down the Long Valley concrete walk-way.

2. A "aesthetically appropriate" pond shaped ice skating rink; constructed of a synthetic ice skating surface.

3. A raised walkway around the entire Long Valley meadow area.

4. A Ranger and Hiking Center which would include a retail operation to purchase or rent hiking supplies. Visitors to the State Park or wilderness areas would be required "to pass through this center."

Also, plans are being proposed for a miniature golf course adjacent to the bottom tram station.

To put all of this in context, it was about 6 years ago that the State Park ordered the removal of bolts on a small cliff near (but not really visible from) the upper Tram station. Bolts were accused of being too large of an intrusion in this natural area. Apparently, a people mover, ice skating rink, raised walkways and Hiking Center are less of an impact that a dozen or so bolts on a cliff nobody but climbers see or frequent. Or could it be that MSJWPA has not thought of a good way of making money off bolts/climbing?

While this is all in the preliminary planning stages, perhaps now is a good time to add your thoughts on what is a major expansion of commercial development of this remote and wild spot.

You may contact the State Park (they will have to approve a General Management Plan to permit this commercial expansion/development):

Note that the people mover was only going to take people to the bottom of the cement walkway, not out into the wilderness.

[Hikin_Jim]

3. A raised walkway around the entire Long Valley meadow area.

Oh, thank goodness they're improving a "hard core" trail like that. (Actually though, other than the construction, would a raised walkway be an actual benefit to the area? Perhaps it would keep people on the trail more and prevent people from trampling the vegetation? Of course that assumes that people would stay on the trail.)

Minature golf courses, mandatory "visitor" (shopping) centers, and ice skating rinks? When will Cirque du Soleil be setting up their tents? Can I buy Blue Man Group tickets yet?

[HikeUp]

"synthetic ice skating surface"

Good lord! That alone should doom the idea to permanent oblivion.

[AlanK]

I have a solution -- they can build the rink with a synthetic skating surface in downtown Palm Springs and have a simulated tram ride.

Actually, I am thinking about starting a business in Palm Springs: A virtual reality Cactus to Clouds hike. It'd rely on treadmills, of course. The advantage would be that the temperature would always be 68 degrees. We'd save on SAR costs and all you junkies who fret about doing it on 115 degree days could partake 365 days per year!

[Hikin_Jim]

"synthetic ice skating surface"

Yeah, I saw that too. What the heck is a "synthetic ice skating surface?"

Anyway, I guess no one has any updates. I hope no news is good news.

[TRumble24]

A "synthetic ice skating surface" is a certain type of material that lets you glide on it with ice skates as if it were ice and it works no matter what the temperature is. I play ice hockey and I've seen them for sale in different hockey cataloges and they don't look that cool. I can't imagine how any type of material can replicate ice, I imagine stopping and ripping the POS. If your gonna build an ice rink use ICE, but for god sakes don't build one at the tram! Oh wait here's an idea...add another story on top of the tram station and build it there! Regardless I say best bet is to leave the tram and Long Valley as it is.