C2C/SKYLINE: CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER. COME BACK IN OCTOBER.

[Hikin_Jim]

people are going to do what they want, but PUHLEEEEZE, if you are more than 20 pounds overweight, dressed in full clothing carrying 4 gallons of water and have NEVER done skyline before...please people, this IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE IT A TRY !!!

Hey! I'm only 19.5 lbs overweight, and I need those four gallons. Cut me a little slack, OK?

oh yeah, im now putting dirt in the water thats in the boxes.....looks like mud sort of, but will save you if you are in need.........enjoy.

Nice... And, sadly, probably the only thing that work. I can't believe people are raiding the emergency boxes. That is really frickin' sorry. I feel like standing guard over them with a baseball bat. "You toucha dat water anna I breaka you legs."

HJ

[Florian]

oh yeah, im now putting dirt in the water thats in the boxes.....looks like mud sort of, but will save you if you are in need.........enjoy.

I think you're joking but not sure. People won't drink it, even in desperation, if it looks bad.

-Florian

[wb]

I truly appreciate and respect this community and the <mostly> responsible way that differences are communicated. Rescues will continue to be a part of this trail because of its growing popularity on web-based communities, references in blogs and journals and citations on "the top ten" lists. It's an awesome trail. I feel that, by far, the best resource is Perry's "Cactus to Clouds Hiking Guide" because it offers information without belittling, nagging or disrespecting the reader. Most of us guys want to make an informed decision. Elevating the risk with dire warnings is like putting a red cape in front of a bull; it becomes a kind of a "I dare ya" proposition. And that is for the reader who actually does his homework and stumbles onto this site. The guy who is going to get rescued will probably not ever research his hike or calculate the risk. He will not read these threads or Perry's excellent Hiking Guide, so I do not see much value in raising the tone to a high degree in this particular community because just about all of the contributors to this thread hold relatively compatable views. The warning signs that have been placed on the trail may be the most effective means of communicating to the "ready, shoot, aim" types who are the most likely to need a rescue. Perhaps a couple of, "call your family and say goodbye before proceeding" signs might be very helpful. Either way, everybody's heart seems to be in the right place!

[bluerail]

So Florian, you're telling me that if you were out of water and dehydrated and you came across pools of water sitting in solution pockets on a rock, and it would save you:....you wouldn't drink it ? You would risk death because it wasn't clean bottled water.?!

[Florian]

So Florian, you're telling me that if you were out of water and dehydrated and you came across pools of water sitting in solution pockets on a rock, and it would save you:....you wouldn't drink it ? You would risk death because it wasn't clean bottled water.?!

No, i'm not saying that. I would drink it because i know the importance of water on the desert in such a situation. But most people would not. They would be disgusted by the thought of drinking dirty water and no matter how thirsty they were they'd literally die instead of drink it.

-Florian

[physicslord]

Perhaps a couple of, "call your family and say goodbye before proceeding" signs might be very helpful. Either way, everybody's heart seems to be in the right place!

Yes, and the sign should have a picture of the grim reaper with a thought balloon above his head that reads: "thanks for making this easy on me"

The wider issue is that the internet has made plenty of information on wild places available that used to be harder to come by. Just one example of this increase in dangerous behavior is what has unfolded with the Cedar Creek Falls area in San Diego. Somehow we need to adjust to this tidal wave.

I don't think the answer is to close the trails, which I know some government agencies default to. On the other hand, I don't think scaring people away is working either.

[cynthia23]

I agree with you physicslord, the Internet and the wide dissemination of information is making it much easier for folks to find these kinds of unusual trails, and no doubt increasing the number of rescues.

But to carry on an exchange I just had with Ellen, and to play devil's advocate to my own post for a moment , I do think that people--mostly young men, but not exclusively--have an inherent need to try their mettle in dangerous situations in nature, and there's nothing wrong with that. To the contrary, they're seeking out experiences our synthetic, over-controlled society no longer provides. "The ordeal" is something that people in all societies have always sought out, as a way of maturing. And good for them. Better that they should be trying themselves against Skyline, than vegging out in front of a TV or being zombies in a mall. But what does seem troubling to me is that the people who died on Skyline probably had no idea they were doing something risky. And, as Bluerail's experience on Saturday makes clear, that still seems to be the case. (btw, I was up at Hidden Divide on Saturday, and I overheard the rangers in the station talking about Skyline. Sounds like a very hairy day.) Btw Hal, thank you for those links! I urge everyone reading this thread to read them. They're scary and informative and I think will make it easier for folks to understand our concerns.

I'm genuinely puzzled by the posters who think I'm being 'alarmist' or "doom and gloom." My point seems modest--that it's just too risky to do Skyline on high-temp days, so wait a few months and do it much more safely in October. What the heck is so extreme or "dire" about that? This view--that you should not hike Skyline in summer-- has always been the oldschool, conventional view . In fact, I wish we would hear from some of the oldschool folks here, those who have been doing Skyline for twenty years or more.

As for the people who are angrily saying "I heard Skyline is closed," ROFL! Hey, people, have you never heard of a figure of speech??? Who knew I had such amazing powers?

My next proclamation: everyone who wants to hike Skyline must pay me a fee of ten dollars. PM me your Visa numbers.

[Ed]

Some of it might be competitive word-of-mouth stuff, rather than web-based. 'My brother-in-law has been bragging about doing the Skyline, so I have to do it too', etc.

The web-based material I've seen on Skyline seems to be fairly reasonable, if you are not selective in reading it, and Perry's and Cy's websites are excellent sources for first-timers. Even in hot discussions on Skyline on this discussion board, such as responses to posts such as 'Hey, is it ok for me to do Skyline next month', you suspect that there often would not be much disagreement if everybody had the same complete set of facts, such as temperature, snow conditions, starting time, and hiker qualifications.

I agree with Cynthia that the default advice for first-timers should be 'Wait until October'. If they want to make their first-time hike of Skyline in the summer or winter, they should not be asking other people for assurance that it is ok.

[Cy Kaicener]

For anyone on Facebook this link to the Police search and rescue might be interesting. They have a few reports from Skyline. For anyone in good shape that hikes strenuous hikes every week there should be no problem as long as they start real early, but if the morning lows are in the seventies think twice.

http://www.facebook.com/PalmSpringsPD

[bluerail]

I completely agree with you Cy, if 8000' gain in heat is normal for you and you're use to it, take the precautions and enjoy.

However if you don't regularly do that kind of workout, picking a trail that is in the desert, completely exposed to the sun, has really very little shade at all and absolutely NO water on the route.....then doing this hike really is a huge risk to yourself and others.


Today was a much better day up there but I was still suprised at running across folks on the trail. Nobody really looked happy.

I'm very reassurred to hear that you would drink the water Florian, I believe you're not alone in realizing the importance of water when you are facing dehydration.

BTW....thanks to whoever put water in BOTH boxes !!! Very nice and much appreciated !