Motorized transporters in the San Jac WILDERNESS

[Florian]

Does anyone know what the deal is with those gas powered "transporters" they're using between Long Valley and Round Valley? I can maybe understand a one time special use to bring in supplies but this is the second year they're using them. This is a wilderness and that means NO vehicles. And certainly not something that leaves tracks like a tank all over the mtn. The round-about route they take near the High Trail is ugly, obtrusive, and offensive. With dayglo flagging all along the way too. Like the route isn't obvious. And just what work has this crew been doing anyway? I've seen no trail improvement except they're redoing the trail near the ranger station in Long Valley AGAIN. That section was just redone a year or two ago. Seeing those tank tracks up there is really starting to piss me off. That and the camp established at Round Valley sounded like a cement mixer or some other large motorized device was running all day yesterday.

-Florian

[Andy]

Florian, I agree with you that its an eye/ear sore. My only guess is that this work is under the states jurisdiction whereas other wilderness areas in the national forests are Federal, each defining "wilderness" in their own way? Most Federal wildernesses don't operate trams and sell cold beer... although, at times I kinda wish some did

[Hikin_Jim]

Florian, I agree with you that its an eye/ear sore. My only guess is that this work is under the states jurisdiction whereas other wilderness areas in the national forests are Federal, each defining "wilderness" in their own way? Most Federal wildernesses don't operate trams and sell cold beer... although, at times I kinda wish some did

A Federally designated wilderness is a federally designated wilderness no matter which agency has jurisdiction. The tram is outside the boundary; the wilderness boundary is where you cross the creek and start going up the switchbacks en route to Round Valley).

To have all that machinery inside the wilderness, they had to apply for and have granted some kind of waiver. Supposedly, they're "restoring" the meadow.

HJ

[halhiker]

Florian, I agree with you that its an eye/ear sore. My only guess is that this work is under the states jurisdiction whereas other wilderness areas in the national forests are Federal, each defining "wilderness" in their own way? Most Federal wildernesses don't operate trams and sell cold beer... although, at times I kinda wish some did

A Federally designated wilderness is a federally designated wilderness no matter which agency has jurisdiction. The tram is outside the boundary; the wilderness boundary is where you cross the creek and start going up the switchbacks en route to Round Valley).

To have all that machinery inside the wilderness, they had to apply for and have granted some kind of waiver. Supposedly, they're "restoring" the meadow.

HJ

The State Park wilderness is not a federally designated wilderness. It is a State Park. I noticed those tracks and think they look terrible. I certainly hope they return the area to its original state.

To me it is quite hypocritical of the Park managers to restrict people's access to a certain unique area of the mountain and then tear the crap out of the rest of it in the name of preservation.

We certainly have some very interesting land managers in our area.

[Ed]

Whatever they are doing, I would be 90% or more certain they received a special grant of funds to do it.

I know that some people disagree, but I find our land managers in general to be secretive and arrogant. Their wilderness permit system, for example, is unbelievably archaic, labor and paper intensive, user unfriendly, and not even consistent for different ranger stations for the same wilderness area or land manager.

If they have money to spend, they ought to use it to reopen trails that have been closed by private landowners, such as the Coldwater Trail on Santiago Peak, or the Falls Creek Trail on San Gorgonio. These trails were open to the public for decades when traffic on trails in Southern California was a small fraction of what it is now, and crossed private land for only a short stretch. It is hard to believe that the public land managers could not have prevented the closures, or could not reopen them now, through some combination of legal action and negotiation.

By the way, speaking of secretive land managers, does anyway know whether or not the Vivian Creek Trail is open yet? I can't find out from any source on the Internet, and it is a 3 hour drive for me.

[Sally]

Hi Florian - We saw the "tank" being pushed next to the trail on our way to Hidden Divide a couple of weeks ago. It really did make a mess of the terrain adjacent to the trail.

Hi Ed - I just got a permit to do Vivian Creek Trail this Wednesday.

I agree that the wilderness permit system is out of whack. Even if I show up at the Mill Creek ranger station station at 4:45 on a Wednesday morning most of the slots for most trails are empty. I doubt that that many people have beat me to it by 4:45 AM! And we usually don't see anyone on the trail on Wednesdays either!

[Ed]

Sally,

Thanks for the information. Look forward to your trip report.

[Patrick]

I agree that the wilderness permit system is out of whack. Even if I show up at the Mill Creek ranger station station at 4:45 on a Wednesday morning most of the slots for most trails are empty. I doubt that that many people have beat me to it by 4:45 AM! And we usually don't see anyone on the trail on Wednesdays either!

Last time that I went into MCRS, they told me that they aren't really putting permits out anymore.

I dont know if thats true or not. Everyone that was in there was a new volunteer.

[thatoneguy]

The CCC is working on many different projects all over MTSJ. They are making many improvments and once they are finished they will leave no trace. I think they will be around for a few more years.

[phydeux]

Since the State is in such a fiscal bind, maybe they're trying to put in 'improvements' that'll include corporate sponsorships. Can't you just envision getting to the summit and enjoying a nice cup of coffee and a bran muffin at the revamped summit hut?