C2C/SKYLINE: CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER. COME BACK IN OCTOBER.

[soulcamp]

Also, I'm not trying to start a conflict here. Just voicing my opinion of how best to deal with warning people here of the dangers associated with Skyline. I feel like people coming to this board for info are already less likely to ever need rescuing because they are clearly interested in learning more. Giving them as much info as possible to help them plan (and possibly decide to hold off) without exaggerating or filtering is, IMO, the best approach.

[KathyW]

Today's Desert Sun paper reported on a rescue of some extremely foolish hikers who took the tram up and then attempted to hike DOWN Skyline. They experienced heat exhaustion and dehydration at 2500 feet and had to be airlifted off the mountain. (if somebody can post the link to the article, please do?) Idiotic and irresponsible though their actions were, it is useful in illustrating one hard, basic fact: you can't hike back down Skyline right now. If you start C2C/Skyline, you are going to finish it, or you are going to die. All attempts to do the hike now are COMMITTED hikes. That means you can't turn back. Let's do the math: Temps this week and last have been 102 to a 106, with nightly LOWS at seventy nine. Even if you start out at 4 am (a late start) the temps will ALREADY be eighty degrees. Let's say you hike up four hours--with temps rising every hour--then at 8 a.m., when you're at five thousand feet (despite the superfast people who post on here, the average time up Skyline is closer to seven to eight hours) you twist your ankle, have food poisoning from last night's Thai food, or simply feel too dizzy, exhausted and nauseated to continue up--a real possibility when you are exercising at maximum capacity and your overworked CVS has to expend much of its energy to keep your core temps at 98.5. There are still four thousand feet and five miles ahead of you and you simply can't continue up. Guess what? It's now too late to turn back. So what are you going to do?? Hello, there's no Plan B! Not only can you not go up: you can't go down. Daily highs this week are 106. If you descend, by ten or eleven it will be close to a hundred degrees, yet you'll still have two hours of hiking ahead of you, getting ever hotter. No matter how much water you have, and despite the fact that you are hiking downhill, you WILL get heat stroke. I am a local, trust me on this. You can't walk around in a park for an hour at noon here and not get heat stroke, let alone descend Skyline.

Even worse, we are having a horrific May in which the average daily temps have been ten to fifteen degrees above our normal low nineties. Every day this week has been well over a hundred. It's only going to get hotter. IMHO (and those of all rescue personnel) no one should do C2C/Skyline anymore this season (unless, maybe, you are a highly experienced and superfit local like Bluerail, who does Skyline virtually every week and understands its risks.) I realize some have planned out a late May C2C, thinking it would still be safe, but IMHO conditions are ripe right now for a heat death tragedy like the one that occurred a few years ago, in which a twenty eight year old man set out to do C2C in mid May and was dead less than twelve hours later. Are you totally, one hundred percent sure you can make it up Skyline? If you have never done it before, don't even think about doing until temps have cooled down. If you did it once or twice before, but during cooler temps, don't even think about it. And if you have done it during high temps, do you understand that you were simply lucky to make it, that you dodged a bullet, and that something as simple as a blown bunion would have resulted in you needing a rescue helicopter? The general rule of thumb is that Skyline should never be attempted when daily high temps are over 92 and lows are over sixty five. We're now fifteen degrees over that and yet many appear to still be planning C2C's, not understanding that while it's springtime in San Diego or Seattle or wherever they are, it's full on Hell Summer here. Don't do it folks, wait until late October or early November. And always, always, always: check the weather forecast.

I totally agree with Cynthia's warning. It is a committed hike this time of year and you will likely have problems if you try to turn around part of the way up because of the hot temperatures. Of course there are people that are acclimated to the heat and can handle doing the hike this time of year, but most people are not.

I also think it's best not to post Skyline/C2C trip reports this time of year because it might encourage folks to head up that trail when they would be better off waiting for cooler weather.

Anyway, it's great that there were no rescues or deaths this weekend (other than the death of Friday with no cause reported), but why would anyone who isn't accustomed to hiking tough trails in hot weather risk it? Aren't there other trails out there that would be less risky this time of year?

[KathyW]

For those who really like heat: http://www.badwater.com/

[soulcamp]

Of course there are people that are acclimated to the heat and can handle doing the hike this time of year, but most people are not.

Other than a group that literally flew past us, my hiking partner and I were easily the best conditioned and most prepared of anyone that we encountered yesterday. Yet everyone we encountered still made it. That's 100% of the 14 or so people I encountered on Skyline yesterday who "handled" it.

I also think it's best not to post Skyline/C2C trip reports this time of year because it might encourage folks to head up that trail when they would be better off waiting for cooler weather.

I don't agree with hiding the truth in order to fool people into thinking it's impossible. Part of the reason I was as prepared as I was for my first C2C (and all subsequent ones) was because of the TRs on this board. I fundamentally don't agree with the idea of withholding information useful (or even interesting) to most in order to prevent a small few (who are, in all likelihood, not reading this anyway) from misusing it. Stupid people are going to be stupid. Period. Nannying the rest of us is unnecessary.

Anyway, it's great that there were no rescues or deaths this weekend (other than the death of Friday with no cause reported), but why would anyone who isn't accustomed to hiking tough trails in hot weather risk it? Aren't there other trails out there that would be less risky this time of year?

Well, I suppose I could argue that I *am* accustomed to hiking tough trails in hot weather. But the reason that *I* chose to hike Skyline yesterday is because it's one of my favorite trails, and due to my schedule, yesterday was the best day for me to do it. Sure there other trails out there that are less risky. And I hike them too. But hiking *anywhere* in the wilderness is risky. If the goal is to avoid all risk, I'd never go hiking. What is *more* important is having a clear and complete understanding of the risks, planning for those risks, and being prepared to deal with an emergency. And this comes from MORE information, not less.

[soulcamp]

Lots of good and valuable replies. As stated by others above, my primarly concern is for the individuals who really don't know what they are getting into during the summer on Skyline. Those experienced with Skyline will probably make good decisions based on the factors they understand. To those who are first timers, I really suggest that you wait until October and find an experienced Skyliner to accompany.

That's what I did my first time. And I'm glad I did. It was a wonderful first experience.

z

I did my first Skyline/C2C by myself. At the end of May.

But thanks to this board, I was well prepared. I knew how much food/water to bring, had GPS maps (including waypoints) and what to look for, what not to do (like hike back down), where cell phone coverage was, where to park, what time to start, when the last tram ran, how to catch a taxi, and even about filling out a permit at the ranger station. I also had a general idea of what kind of exertion I could expect along different parts of the trail and spent a couple months training for it here on local trails in SD.

If I had not found this board first, I probably would have been caught in the snow at the top in shorts and listed in an RMRU report.

[cynthia23]

I never tried to 'fool' people nor did I EVER say it was "impossible". Nor did I try to 'nanny' anyone, just gave people the hard facts, which some don't want to hear. Your language is rude. Go back and read my original post! I said it was incredibly DANGEROUS, which, in fact, it is. I stand by my original post in every way. The fact that you survived your journey up is totally beside my point, which you appear not to understand. Nor do you seem to understand our point that it's really irresponsible to encourage unknown others, whose conditioning level you don't know, to attempt a high-temp C2C by boasting/posting about how you just did one. How will you feel if somebody reads that, thinks "Oh, if Soulcamp did C2C for the first time in late May, I guess I can too," and then DIES?

Once again, here's my really quite uncontroversial point, stated originally: if you hike on Skyline on a high-temp day, and anything goes wrong--'anything' being anything from fatigue to stomach upset--you will have to call for a rescue, or go down and die. That makes it an incredibly dangerous hike--REGARDLESS of how smoothly it does or doesn't go. It really is as simple as that. What don't you understand about that?

Another part of what is not fully appreciated by some is that hiking on a high temp day doesn't just put you at risk; it puts your rescuers at risk. If they have to fly the copter in for you, the copter pilot is doing something quite dangerous (the mountain is subject to unpredictable shear winds.) How would you feel if somebody died trying to rescue you from a hike you could just have easily done on a much less dangerous day, but insisted on doing anyway, because .... uh, well, because I just didn't feel like waiting three months ???

C2C on a high temp day: not worth the risk, to oneself or others.

[Cy Kaicener]

Here is another rescue which seems heat related

http://www.kesq.com/news/Palm-Springs-p ... index.html

[cynthia23]

Thanks for that link, Cy! I just heard on the TV news that one of the hikers is now in critical condition at the hospital. It is heat-related. Hope he's okay.

[bobodobo]

I came across this thread as I was preparing for a climb of San Jacinto via the Snow Creek Village / Pacific Crest Trail / Little Round Valley route. I completed the trip yesterday with no major problems.

I'm writing because, quite frankly, I was nearly scared off by the predictions of doom and destruction. I was thinking, "am I missing something? I've done this sort of hike before but maybe C2C or PCT is just the killer of all trails? Am I certain to DIE if I attempt this?" (Although PCT is not exactly the same hike as C2C, it's similar enough that most of the same considerations apply.)

Of course to do this type of hike you have to be prepared with lots of water, sun protection, good conditioning and common sense. But, I agree with those who state that if someone tells everyone that they can't do this hike, eventually people will just ignore said advice... which is what I wound up doing.

Cautionary is good, alarmist... ehh not so much.

Good hiking to all.

PS. As per the blog title, is the Skyline Trail actually "closed" by authorities for the summer? Or is that just the opinion of the author that it should not be attempted?

[cynthia23]

Beginning ... to .... feel .... incredibly .... weary ....can't ... go ...on....dealing ...with... this....thread.....can .....someone .... out there....please....respond ...rationally.... to....this.... PCT dude.... .....help meeee....