C2C/SKYLINE: CLOSED FOR THE SUMMER. COME BACK IN OCTOBER.

[bluerail]

Isn't mostly rescues in the winter , and recoveries in the summer ?

Nice to see you and lipbiter pop up on the board Nick.

I really hope we don't have another sad summer like a couple of years ago, it already isn't off to a good start.7

[soulcamp]

I am also planning on coming up from San Diego this weekend and doing Skyline on Sunday. I figured a 3am start time should give me a reprise from the worst of the heat. I've done C2C twice (first was last Memorial Day, which the weather was pretty close to the same), and I hike in 80+ deg weather regularly here in SD. I know how to deal with heat and keep myself hydrated.

Is it really that bad? I understand there are inexperienced people who are trying to do this at 8am with a couple of liters of water, but I'm not one of them. I'll be bringing 4L of water and 3L of electrolyte drink. I've been planning this trip for months. Do I really need to cancel it now?

[Nick-SJM]

Wow, I thought I was pretty clear in my prior post. Why don't you go up the tram and hike some of the trails up there. If you need a challenge, ask at the ranger station about either the Wellman's - Strawberry Junction - S.J. Peak loop or the Wellman's - Saddle Junction - Hidden Divide Loop. Those will give you a good work out.

[Hoop]

Well, I was planning on coming out from LA tonight and hiking it tomorrow (I'm training for McKinley). You guys have dissuaded me since I've actually never done the skyline. Any other suggestions for a run out, brutal, leg-annihilating hike in the area that won't leave me mummified?

[Carl F]

Hey Hoop,

Lots of alternatives out there. A couple of my favorites are

1. Marion Mountain trail. Starts in Idlewild ends at SJ summit 4800 ft 12 mi roundtrip, somewhat steep.

2. South Fork trail to Dollar lake trail to San G summit back down Dry lake trail roughly 21 miles loop, 4600 ft elevation gain, very pretty.

I agree why take a chance on skyline. Just the thought of it scares me this time of year, but then again I'm also a member of the Polar Bear club.

[Hoop]

Appreciate the tip, guys! That's one of the awesome things about forums. Have a great weekend and climb safe out there.

[zippetydude]

Wow, I thought I was pretty clear in my prior post.

Ouch! That's rough Nick!

Okay, I'm going to go against the grain here, but I'm doing it for a reason. The posts on this board will have absolutely no credibility if we wildly waive everyone off everytime someone asks a question. Better to be open with the reasoning than simply saying no to everyone if our intention is to actually impact the number of negative events.

Soulcamp, you said you've done Skyline twice before and are leaving at 3:00 a.m. I don't know how long it took you on your previous trips, but if it takes you 6 hours to get to, say, 6000', the temperature in Palm Springs will have risen to a "hellish" 78 degrees...and the temperature where you will be at the time will be about 60 degrees (subtracting three degrees per thousand feet due to the adiabatic lapse rate). Yes, it's true that if some injury took place you'd need to call for help, but that would be true anywhere. You've done the trail twice before, and temps in the low 60's at the start are certainly low enough to allow you ample time to stay well ahead of the heat. I'm betting you'll be just fine, and I don't think you should cancel your adventure.

Hoop, you're training for McKinley and you haven't done Skyline before, so I'd favor Carl F's advice for South Fork to San G. You'll have extended time at high altitude covering considerable distance. That's much more specific to your training goals (I'm guessing) than Skyline would be. Especially since you are new to Skyline, it can be confusing in several places and you could end up losing a lot of time and having it get hot on you, which is what this whole thread is about.

In short, I find in my own life when people just give me blanket statements about what I shouldn't do, I immediately ignore them and go find someone who can give me the in's and out's of the situation and then I make my own informed decision. So far, I've never needed a rescue for any reason. Whether my method is right or wrong, I think most people do the same thing, so I think a straightforward answer, even if it's a yes, is better than a blanket no.

Soulcamp, hope you have fun. Hoop, if you do Southfork, I bet you won't regret it. It's a beautiful trail.

z

[soulcamp]

Thanks @zippitydude. I was getting ready to make a post about the same issue.

I think the approach that has been taken here is, while well-intentioned, slightly misguided. For the same reasons zip mentioned in his post, blanket statements to the effect of, "if you try to hike Skyline now, no matter who you are, you will either need to be rescued or die" will simply turn people away who would otherwise benefit from the wealth of knowledge this board and its members can provide. For every rescue that must be made on Skyline on any given weekend, how many other hikers successfully make it to the top? 20? 30? 50? 100? Without taking this into account, your credibility falters, and no matter how experienced or informed you might be on the subject, you run the risk of being completely ignored. Like with politics, extreme views are never very effective.

The people mentioned in the initial post (who needed to be rescued for trying to traverse down Skyline) were clearly not well-informed. If they had spent even 10 minutes here, they might have realized the pitfalls in their plan and might not have tried. I think those that come here seeking advice are already a step above your average Joe or Jane rescuee. I believe this site should present them advice in three areas: Risks, Preparation, and Contingencies.

Risks

Heat is only one of the risks people face when attempting Skyline, and all of them should be factored in when trying to make the decision whether or not to climb. Here are some of the ones I know of:

Dehydration - There is no water available. ANYWHERE. You not only have to carry it with you, you will need to know how to hydrate yourself properly so it doesn't just run through you.
Getting lost - While the trail is relatively easy to follow (in daylight), it is still easy to wander off track. Can you find your way back?
Exhaustion - Do you know how much your body can take? And how you react when you've reached that point?
Heat stroke - Do you know how to keep yourself cool and how to tell when you are overheating before you reach a critical point?
Rugged terrain - Are you experienced with difficult terrain? Do you have proper technique to prevent you from twisting an ankle or slipping? Do you have the proper footwear? (I've actually seen people on Skyline in flip flops)
Cramping - Do you know how to handle extreme cramping in your muscles? Experience is really the only way you can learn how to deal with this.
Injuries - This runs the gamut from blisters to broken bones. Any of these could end your trip and necessitate a rescue.
Rattlesnakes - Again, experience is key here. Do you know how to avoid getting bitten, and what to do if you are?
No help - No one is monitoring the trail. No ranger will be checking in on you. If you run into trouble, you are one your own. Do you have a way to signal for help?

Preparation

For those that have assessed the risks and decided that they are willing to accept them, the next step is preparing. Here are some of the things I find necessary.

Water - This has been said a million times here, but you can't have too much. One gallon is a minimum for cool trips, two for hot ones. Having electrolytes to supplement your water with is essential. And know that things like energy gels and chews require even more water to process.
Cell phone - This is your primary way to call for help, if it is needed. I've found that AT&T has a decent signal from the museum to a few hundred feet from the top. However, signal strength can vary. And low signal strength or use of GPS will drain a battery more quickly. I always carry a spare battery.
Extra socks & moleskin - On my last trip, my buddy had blisters the size of quarters on both his heels by 4300'. If I hadn't brought moleskin and an extra pair of SmartWools, I'm not sure if he would have made it. (How he managed to finish a full C2C with those blisters...)
Headlamp & batteries - I always put a fresh set of batteries in before I hit the trailhead, but you should at least check before you start up. Skyline is hard enough to climb when you can see.
Good snacks (and baggies to hold your trash) - One of my biggest problems is probably not eating enough along the way, and by the time I hit 6000', I hit a wall. I'm planning to do better this time.

Contingencies

If for some reason, you run into trouble, you should know how to deal with it.

Don't climb down - Everyone's point of no return is slightly different, but the key thing that I learned from this board is trying to climb back down is the single worst thing you can do when you're in trouble. The general rule of 3-4 degrees cooler for every 1000' of altitude gained is correct, but the inverse is also true. If you're at 5000' and it's 80 degrees, heading back down to 2000' means it's probably going to be 95 degrees when you get there. DON'T DO IT! Stay where you're at and call for help.
Call for help ASAP - If you reach a point (or something happens) where you know you're going to need help, don't hesitate. Your rescue will be much safer for you and those who are helping you if you're alert, rested, hydrated, and mobile. Waiting until you are dehydrated and discombobulated before calling for help increases your danger and the difficulty of your rescue.
Seek shelter and wait for help to arrive - Once you have called for help, you should try to get somewhere safe, shaded, and accessible to rescue workers. Then stay there. If you're near one of the rescue boxes, utilize a thermal blanket (or better yet, carry one yourself, like I do).

I think that about covers what I have to say. I'm sure I've missed something, but I'm sure others here will pick up my slack.

[zippetydude]

Have fun!

z

[bluerail]

ya gotta love people that think......

and im sure folks know to leave their phone on airplane or turn it off unless needed.