tram station leaving people to die

[phydeux]

Interesting comments. Here's a few I think about:

1. I'd discount the newspaper articles, since a lot of those are biased to make 'em more dramatic; the reporter could have interviewed all 17 persons, then just quoted those that gave the most 'dramatic' comments, to make the story more attractive to readers.
2. It would be interesting to find out if the PSAT has an emergency plan, and if it has any contingencies for persons stuck at the top. Not necessarily hikers (who should be aware), but tourists who just come up for a couple hours of snow play, a picnic, etc. with ZERO extra gear.
3. FWIW: Back in the 1980s- early 1990s the summit hut was always locked in the winter to discourage folks from staying there (and there was a warning sign at the Ranger Station, too, but it wouldn't have been hard to break into the hut). I wonder why they decided to start leaving it open?
4. Does anyone have a copy of a day hike permit? Doesn't that say something about being prepared for inclement weather?

[AlanK]

you live in a "society" now. One where personal and corporate responsibility are expected.

Aren't "corporate" and "persona;" redundant these days?

[Zé]

sure, I have those primal urges. I also have urges to stop people from getting screwed over. You can have both.

The tram closed. The ranger stayed to help those that were still out. He found them shelter, gave them blankets. The hikers made do with what they had. WTF do you want? The manager of the PSAT hung in public? A congressional hearing? Maybe we need legislation requiring tram operators to provide warm meals and 900 fill sleeping bags in an emergency. Maybe a law requiring hikers to obtain a state license to walk on the trail (with a helmet of course)

nope. the world isn't black & white. it's not either, "let them do whatever the hell they want" or "bog them down with endless, inefficient restrictions". What I want, is simply creating visibility for the fact that the PSAT simply shut their doors on their customers, leaving them in a potentially dangerous situation. Make some commotion, so that hopefully they are prepared in the future to deal with similar cases so that they don't end up worse. Actually that can be pretty efficient.

you live in a "society" now. One where personal and corporate responsibility are expected.

Aren't "corporate" and "persona;" redundant these days?

yes, funny and sad.

[bluerail]

looks like were gonna have to dig up those land swap threads pretty soon folks....

[halhiker]

Even if it weren't for the fact that the tram operator failed to live up to the Golden Rule--I doubt he or she would have enjoyed being left out in the cold--they failed to realize that tourism and hospitality are our bread and butter in this community and bailing on your GUESTS is the single worst thing I have heard of in my 20+ years working in the tourism/hospitality industry. it's akin to the captain of that cruise ship leaving his passengers to fend for themselves while he abandoned ship.

In emergency situations, people who work in my business go out of their way to help people even more than we do otherwise. I remember during the San Diego fires, the hotel I work at offered a 2/3 discount and waived our no pets policy to help people who were displaced by that disaster. Our hotel looked like Noah's Ark. Our management was smart enough to know that you toss policy and the rule book out the window when people are in extraordinary situations.

What the Tram did was bullshit. They bailed on their customers when they needed them most. It is inexcusable.

Maybe I don't want the manager hanged in public. I'd settle for being tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. Being that inhospitable is a disgrace to the local tourism industry. They should be ashamed.

[cynthia23]

Yeah, you've nailed it HH. It's not so much that one wants PSAT lynched or for rangers to provide for every possible contigency, but some kind of public accountability is necessary so there isn't a real tragedy somewhere down the line. It is indeed somewhat analagous to the situation with the cruise ship. It's troubling that PSAT simply doesn't seem to have thought through what to do in this situation or several others. I'm reminded of the time the tram got stuck because they hadn't planned for the possibility of the rescue cable itself getting stuck. And even then, they had to call all over SoCal trying to find helicopters that could help them because they'd never planned out what to do. Finally the tram operator climbed out and fixed the problem with his pocketknife. It's like they don't have a playbook. What do they plan to do if there's ever another evacuation-type situation? What if there was a fire, maybe an earthquake? Would they just book it out of there and leave a bunch of Canadian toddlers and Bengali grandmothers wandering around in Long Valley? And I don't understand all the 'live free or die!" people posting that our complaints about PSAT will somehow infringe on everyone's constitutional right to die of hypothermia. Isn't it PSAT here who has been the stodgy bureacrat, refusing to do what is obviously reasonable (shelter freezing people) because they're overly preoccupied with rules, litigation, and remote threats?

[bobmc]

Any time you go in the wilderness you must be prepared to spend the night if necessary. This includes having food and proper clothing for the temperature.

You are also responsible to check weather conditions for the area you are visiting. The forecast showed high winds.

I don't know if the affected people were from one group. but the limit for hiking groups in the San Jacinto federal wilderness is twelve NOT 17

Judging by the photos it appears that they didn't have snowshoes either.

To the author of the article the low temp was 33 degrees that night hardly life threatening if you are prepared.

To the Tram company it might be a good idea to implement some kind of procedure when adverse weather forecasts could force the closure of the tram such as posting a drop dead time when people disembark the station

To the Mountain adventurers I am sure that I know some of you and that you are all capable fit hikers. Now would be a good time to review your preparedness and make adjustments to your gear and planning. Summit blindness and/or poor planning causes many unfortunate incidents that could have easily been prevented by delaying the event or turning back.

To the Ranger Thank you for helping them get set up.

Unfortunately, If the rangers let every person who got stuck stay in the cabin it would soon become a hostel.

I am glad everyone is safe and can take some positive from this

[asabat]

Any time you go in the wilderness you must be prepared to spend the night if necessary. This includes having food and proper clothing for the temperature.

True.

But once they reached the tram station they were no longer in wilderness by any definition.

The ride they were counting on bailed on them.

IF the tram knew winds would be high, as suggested here, couldn't they have put a BIG sign at the exit of the station saying they would close at X:00, or at any time TODAY without notice when winds exceed XX?

THEN I would give the tram a break. But I'm not hearing anyone saying they told their customers this would happen. (Beyond the usual boilerplate.)

OTOH, I don't want to see this give another reason to close hiking trails at random for "our safety".

[AlanK]

Any time you go in the wilderness you must be prepared to spend the night if necessary. This includes having food and proper clothing for the temperature.

You are also responsible to check weather conditions for the area you are visiting. The forecast showed high winds.

Any time you transport untrained people by the hundreds to a wilderness area and encourage them to hike, etc., you take on considerable responsibility. Sure, you can say that people should be prepared for anything. But closing down the tram and the upper tram station knowing that you are stranding customers seems to me to represent a large potential exposure for the folks who run the tram. We can argue all we want about personal responsibility, but the courts would likely take a different view if something terrible happened.

[Ed]

Some people have referred to the PSAT as a business. I've never known who actually owns and operates the tram, but have always been curious, so I spent a few minutes checking it out on the web. Here is what I found.

Its governing board is the Mount San Jacinto Winter Park Authority, founded in 1945, long before the tramway was built. It refers to itself as a public agency and public corporation of the State of California. The board has seven members, appointed by the Palm Springs City Council (2), the Riverside County Board of Supervisors (2), and the governor (3). Every current member of the board refers to him/herself as a business person.

I could not find any information on who if anyone receives revenues in excess of costs.

If anybody knows more, I would certainly encourage them to share it.