Mountain Lion on Skyline ....or, Quail in Army Boots?

[Cy Kaicener]

We had this mountain lion sighting a month ago
http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic. ... ef195121f4

Too bad it wont eat cat food or maybe a raw steak might work if you see it in time. With all the traffic on Skyline there have been no incidents yet (that I have heard of), so it seems they dont go out of their way for sweaty hikers. On the other hand you dont want them to smell a raw wound.

[cynthia23]

Thanks for the all the responses, folks. Yeah, quail seems a possibility, although usuallly in my experience the parent quails will run out in front of you to lead you away from the babies. And this was really very loud. Coyote seem even more like a possibility. Ellen, thanks for the 'fishy' empathy--I really hurried my 'bass' out of there, I can tell you that. It's interesting you saw deer at 4k--when deer are around, probably the mountain lions are too. Cy, your suggestion re: the cat food is not far off, maybe--I happened to be carrying some (wrapped) salmon for my lunch, and later I thought that might have been a bad idea. Next time I'll take a tofu burger?

Last night did some surfing re: mountain lions and one interesting tidbit was that apparently, the standard advice of 'don't move' is not good. In a small study, when people were actually attacked (not just stalked), slightly more people survived by running. And standing still in a frozen way can apparently make them think you're more like a deer and weak/vulnerable/frightened. But obviously you don't want to turn your back on them. So I guess the best strategy is running uphill backwards.

[Ellen]

On the other hand you dont want them to smell a raw wound.

Uh oh, I am doomed

Miles of smiles,
Ellen
Bloody blonde hiking

[scottmac]

FYI ...

How to Avoid or Survive an Encounter with a Mountain Lion:

http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/onguard.htm

[cynthia23]

Thanks for the link! It had some good info (especially about making eye contact, and means of fighting back) although a few things made me smile: "don't walk near foliage or near overhanging rocks" "don't go outdoors for long periods of time" "don't go outdoors betweeen dusk and dawn". I'm pretty sure most of us here violate those rules on a near daily basis My favorite piece of advice though: "don't try to soothe the lion verbally." Nice kitty?

[mikeyb]

There is no similarity between the panic flutter of a startled Quail leaving the brush and the low growl of a Mountain Lion in the brush, that prompts panic, unless you've never heard either, or both...

Left the musuem to do my first night hike to the tram late this past Friday night under full moon. First surprise was the guy (sleeping on the trail?!) I almost stepped on within a hundred yards above the parking who jumped up and jabbered about ME SCARING HIM! Turned the headlamp on shortly after that.

Again, my first solo night hike up to the tram (hike #3 total). Thought I would go slow, enjoy, then ride down on first tram. I was actually very slow and went 12+ hours with "delays", snow and a bit of ice above flat rock (need to purchase crampons).

My guess was that around 6,000 ft. in the dark (below Rescue 2), heard the brush rustle near me as I rounded a switchback (wearing my head phones to keep ears warm [music off]). Scanned my headlamp 180 degrees uphill and picked up two sets of yellow green eyes, one large wide set 30-40 yards uphill (that could see, and be seen, over the two foot tall scrub). Another pair up 60-80 yards above me. Did a 360 degree scan and picked up pair number three on my left flank across the ravine from the brush end of the switchback.

I grew up around Glacier Park, think I'm an okay outdoorsman, and have seen most wildlife fairly close and personal. So, because the eyes held their ground even while I shined into to them, my guess was too large and too confident for Coyote (I've been around dozens of em, and Im used to their howling, and these were silent stares back at me). Because it was so noisy in the brush and the determined fix of the eyes, it reminded me of having an eye-lock-on with a very large gray timber wolf. (Over the past two years I've invested upwards of twelve hours online reading all of the western Mountain Lion stories, and there are few deer herds around here to feed adolescents and adults who need approx. 10 lbs of meat a day, and my past experience around big cats was silence, and this was so noisy: yet the eyes were cat, wolf or maybe coyote). Not quail or rabbit or mountain sheep or mountain goat or fox or bear.

I thought about retreating my 6-8 hours back down the trail, instead I got out the 250 watt halogene bicycle headlight and tried to heat up the retinas staring back at me with high wattage, I was trying to intimidate. I really did not want to zigzag up switchbacks through their brush, and I did not want to go down in fear.

She(he) started, ever so slowly to back away 10-20 yards at a time, always turning around to consider me (appetizer, main course or dessert?) for over 15-20 minutes, until no more sets of eyes could be seen. I had been silent the entire time, didn't want to yell unless they started toward me, just wasn't sure what I was dealing with. Finally, I turned on the music in my headphones, starting singing loud and dancing like a crazy man (in the dark, it made me feel good). At the first sign of sunrise, I resumed up the trail singing loud and proud every few yards (at the top of my lungs). Anything (man or beast) within ear shot should have fleed, at least that was the plan.

I did position the iPhone with camera at the ready, just in case I had to pay full price I wanted photos for my wake (so the friends who are scared of the dark and always advise against night hikes - especially solo), can say they "told me so" while drinking my ice cold beer...

At the tram I talked to a local Skyline Trail expert who said there's no Wolves up here, he said I ran across mama Mountain Lion and her two cubs born last spring who are usually seen in Tahquitz Canyon.

Cheers!

[cynthia23]

OMG MikeyB, that is one terrifying story! I too at the time of my 'incident' did the loud singing and shouting thing. If nothing else it makes you feel better (although not any human being who has the misfortune to hear me.) btw, in my experience, I didn't hear anything resembling growling, just something large going through the brush, following me from above as I climbed the shady slope.

After that I decided to carry a marine/sport horn (bought it at Big5), the theory being that if I see anything that seems to want to eat me, I'll blow the horn. I've 'blipped'it a few times when alone and having to go up ravines. Sid from Alaska said he has used them to scare off bears. He says they run away. I don't know if it would work with Mountain Lions (I could find no literature on it) but it seems like it might. Also, bear spray, which is pepper spray, might work on ML. Again, no one appears to have tested them on ML. The problem is that the pepper spray canisters are very large and unwieldy and hardly something you can just tuck in your pocket. (the small, human sized pepper sprays would only get someone a few feet away--obviously far closer than you'd want a bear or lion to get. The large bear spray canisters are designed to spray out a much wider radius.) Anyway, the marine horns are my compromise solution, although probably it's just my comforting fantasy that it would actually deter a hungry lion.

And speaking of hunger--I do think people should be esp. cautious right now because given the drought, it seems likely to me that the ML's normal prey have decreased. They probably don't want to eat people, but maybe if they're real, real hungry ....

btw my incident took place at midday, so an encounter could happen any time of day although obviously much more likely at dusk or night. Another thing is that I think the ML favor situations where they are above the prey and the sun is shining behind them, so that when you look up you can't see well (this was the situation at the time on the shady slope.) So I would say people on Skyline should be especially cautious on all the north slopes where the sun will be to their left/above and there is brush or a ridge above. IMHO I think the 'enchanted gardens' area just above 4300 ft is another area where you might expect ML to sit above waiting to see what walks by on the trail below. After my incident I found quite a few deer tracks nearby so people should realize the deer and bighorn also use these trails, thus you can assume the ML are watching many of these areas looking for prey.

[scotts]

Cats do like to be up high, but I think not just for predation, but to feel safe against enemies and to have a better position for observation. You see this in house cats, in leopards (on PBS) and likely in pumas too.

This sense of security might lead a cat to hold position upslope on a trail like skyline, in hopes that the human appearing from below might just go back the way they came. Probably moreso at night, when along with superior position the cat naturally feels hidden by darkness.

At the same moment, to move for the cat is likely to be discovered by the deadly historical species nemesis with guns and hounds.

Then things develop. The human has continued up trail and is blundering into the cats comfort zone. The time to hide is over, the time to flee has come.

I think if a mountain lion was trying to eat you, it would have been set up to where the rustling sound would have been very brief, and immediately followed by an impact and struggle for your survival.

Scary in any case. I think the recommendation for hikers in mountain lion territory holds regardless of cat psychology or immediate intent: be louder, be fiercer and be bigger, sooner rather than later, and maybe by an order of magnitude if you are hiking alone at night.

[Screerider]

If there were no deer or sheep, there are no lions. they won't wait around hungry waiting for the stray human.

if there was more than one, it is a mother with cubs.

While precaution is wise, there are very few attacks on humans. Chances are you have been around cats. they just aren't into you.