Hiking permit peeve

[drndr]

Does anyone know why San G and San J area requires permits to hike the trails and the Baldy area doesn't?

Did the San G South Fork lollipop hike and was on the trail from 615 to 215 and ran into maybe 25 other hikers. Speaking with some of these hikers I was told they tried to get permits for other trails but they were all taken and had to come up other ways. South Fork trail head parking lot wasn't even close to full when we got back down in the middle of the day.

I can see monitoring the trails with a sign in board but to tell people they can't hike particular trials (Devils Slide and Vivian) seems ridiculous, especially when I think a lot these hikers reserve permits months in advance then don't use them.

I would like to think, on short notice, I should be able to hike anywhere I want at an early hour where I don't have to wait for a ranger station to open to get a same day permit. There has to be a better way. Let me just sign in 3 am with my headlamp and go.

Getting off my soap box now and going back into hiding. Just wondered if anyone knew.

D

[Hikin_Jim]

Does anyone know why San G and San J area requires permits to hike the trails and the Baldy area doesn't?

Baldy isn't in a Federally Designated Wilderness Area.

There's some history here. The SG wilderness was getting "loved to death" particularly around SF Meadows. The changes, while they ARE a pain in the @$$, are for the better.

HJ

[lilbitmo]

Baldy Visitors Center issues permits for the Cucamonga Wilderness, that area that is above Ice House Canyon Trail Head by about 1.8 miles(and has a sign that say's that you do need a permit all other areas you do not), that area is considered Part of San Bernardino National Forest (Don't ask me how they came up with that crap other than the county line separation). The visitor's center will leave you a permit 99% of the time out front on their bulletin board) 95% of the folks never bother - it's the most lax area in Southern Cal.

San J has always been a self-permit (if you are day hiking overnight permits are limited to the spaces available - no one wants to camp on top of another group) at either the ranger station when you get off the tram in Long Valley or both the State Park or National Forest Ranger Station(s) in Idyllwild if the quota for the day has not been met - and it's rare that you cannot find a trail on that side that has an available permit. (The area's outside the State Park are all considered San Bernardino National Forest with the exception of those areas that are Indian Land or BLM Land).

San Bernardino - as in all trails that lead towards San Gorgonio in some shape or form require you to get permits at either the Mill Creek Ranger Station or the other ranger station - they emphasize that they want advanced noticed of at least a week but most folks fax in a request two or three days in advance and if there's an opening they will issue the permit by fax back to you. The Mill Creek Ranger station leaves the remaining permits (unused) out-front each night and you can self-permit if they are available.

Having said all that I've been told on more than one occasion that the reason that the San Bernardino area has a more strict policy is that they want to make the wilderness experience just that and want to limit the number of people per day so that everyone can enjoy the experience as close to pristine as possible (not sure I buy it because if they enter from another trail they sill head for the same area's - typically the Summit or Dry Lake vicinity).

Each area has its own objective and the attitude of the rangers on any given day can change, but it's apparent that the San Gorgonio Wilderness policy tends towards the "militant" at times, not that the other areas don't have their moments as well but they seemed to be less intrusive, more laid back. 95% of the time they are perfect stewards of the different wilderness areas and allow us to exercise our rights to our lands, it's that 5% margin that has made me uneasy when trying to get permits and use the Gorgonio wilderness that has made hiking there uncomfortable at times.

Typically getting a permit is not that hard if you put the effort in. This is for day hiking as mentioned overnight permits are a different story.

These are my opinions based on my experience and it is in no way meant to offend anyone or any rangers as I've had great encounters with all but one and she was none to pleasant about the experience and shame on her for that

[drndr]

I should have mentioned I was strictly referring to day hikes. I can see a need for over night permits.

And don't get me wrong, I love hiking and not running into a lot of people. Just seems unfair to tell people no trail use. I'd hate it if I lived in Forest Falls and Vivian is practically my back yard and I have to get a permit every time i want to go train on the trail. Just let me sign in, rangers can keep track of my name so they still get their numbers for federal funding. You can even day hike unlimited in the Grand Canyon without a permit. With 30 million people living in So Cal, maybe the most I've ever seen on unpermitted Baldy is 50. Say I missed another 150 people. 200 a day is small number for our area and I think it would rarely hit that.

With that said, I am glad I only ran into 20ish people in my 8 hrs of hiking on a beautiful saturday morning