San Jacinto first ascent - Cactus to Clouds

[B.Little]

I will be prepping for this trip, slated for may 12. I've hiked up San Gorgonio 2x ( South Fork and Vivian Creek ) and decided to tackle San Jacinto instead of making the 3rd route up San G ( fish creek ).

Living in San Diego prsents a problem for me when it comes to mountain hiking; living at sea level and trying to manage thin air in higher elevations sucks. I've been running more lately prepping for a day of mosh pitting in Palm Desert this weekend, and I figured why not keep running with a goal in mind and tackle a mountain a few weeks later. My previous trips up San G I didn't run/train this much so I feel like I am in better shape.

Is C2C anything like Vivian Creek trail on San G? Harder or similar ( minus the lack of shade on C2C ). Any recomendations and tips welcomed.

[Ellen]

Howdy B Little

Related to Stuart? Sorry -- I couldn't resist

The difficulty of hiking Skyline (also known as Cactus to Clouds) to the tram has a lot to do with the temperature as well as fitness. Ideally, I like to see the low in Palm Springs at 60 degrees. Also helps to start in the dark so that when the sun comes up, you're several thousand feet up the mountain.

Route finding can be difficult for first timers, so going with a regular for your first trip is recommended -- especially if you're starting in the dark.

For comparsion -- I hike Vivian Creek to the summit of San Gorgonio in about 4 hours (without snow). A fast Skyline for me is 5 hours. Add at least an hour to your Vivian Creek ascent time.

Miles of smiles,
Ellen

[Hikin_Jim]

Is C2C anything like Vivian Creek trail on San G? Harder or similar ( minus the lack of shade on C2C ). Any recomendations and tips welcomed.

Well, first, if you're talking about a true C2C (from the desert floor to the summit of SJ, it's about 10,000' of gain vs. about 5500' from Vivian Creek or 4500' from South Fork. In other words, it's roughy double the amount of elevation gain.

Second, there is no real trail for the route up from the desert floor whereas the routes from Vivian Creek and South Fork are well maintained trails. People can and do get off route on C2C. I think the area near Coffmans Crag is the area I've read about the most people getting messed up.

Then there's the heat. You're starting at roughly 500' of elevation in the desert whereas Vivian Creek and South Fork average about 6500' -- a difference of more than a vertical mile. Not to get alarmist, but people have died of heat stroke en route. Just something to be aware of. If you're ready, you're ready, but be aware there's really not a comparison between the heat of hiking in the desert at 500' versus in the mountains starting some 6000' higher. Your water intake requirements may triple. Carrying 6 to 8 liters of water is not uncommon. Your first water source en route is in Long Valley which you reach only after having climbed 8000' out of 10,000'. Many people start very early in the morning (0300) in order to beat the heat.

The really crappy part about C2C is that there's no bail out until you reach 8000' and can take the tram down. Once you get past a certain point, if you need to bail out, you may have to hike down into searing heat if you try to retreat. Again, not to freak out anyone, but one of the heat stroke deaths was from someone trying to retreat.

So, in my opinion, C2C is significantly harder than San Gorgonio. I'm not an expert by any means so others will hopefully fill in where I've left blanks.

HJ

Some good training hikes for C2C would include:
-Mount Whitney (day hike from the Portal).
-Iron Mountain ("Big Iron") from Heaton Flats.
-Mount San Antonio (Mount Baldy) from the village.
-Mount San Antonio (Mount Baldy) from the north.
-San Bernardino East Peak from Forest Falls.
-Bighorn Mountain from Vivian Creek.
-San Gorgonio Mountain from Vivian Creek.

[B.Little]

I've seen some videos on youtube that made it seem like the skyline portion for the most part was pretty manageable, easy to navigate. Whats the best route down?? I don't wanna be a wuss and tram it down, but 35 round tripper seems a bit much if it is really 17.5 on the C2C up. Is this a steep climb or numerous winding switchbacks?? What times should I shoot for to keep a decent pace on the way up?

The more I hear of how dificult this hike will be the more I want it. I've never had any heat related problems so that part doesn't phase me initially. I grew up in stuffy humidity so dry heat really isn't too bad to me. What worries me is the sheer altitude gain in a relatively short time, but i think I can strenghten my lungs enough between now and then.

I've read a few places people routinely bring 2 gallons of water?!? Do I really need that much or is it a better safe than sorry type mentality. I plan to bring pb&j as well as tuna sammiches, maybe even some honey or power bar to get my sweet fix and quick boost in energy.

I appreciate the tips so far Ellen ( you got jokes ) and Jim. My training route will be local beaster El Cajon Mountain in San Diego as well as my usual epic rides and ball buster runs. I've had people compare El Cap in SD to Mount whitney in dificulty ( it's steep steep ups and downs, 3 valleys en route to top )...then again, on my last trip up Vivian Creek a family training for Whitney said that ( Vivian creek trail ) was harder than San Jacinto; I can't for the life of me remember what route they took though.

[towerthree]

listen to the experts here. i moved here from colorado over a year ago and did skyline 3 time with friends last year. it was a pretty easy 6 hour trip to the tram for me but i did not have to think where i was going. the fourth time i soloed. i left at 4 am and got totally turned around after the picnic tables. i basically bushwhacked it until the sun came up. this was only because i had some knowledge of where i was going. after flatrock once again i relied on prior knowledge but lost the trail a few times. my goal was under 5 hours to the tram, which i did. in doing this i went through my 1.5 gallons of water and became ill for a half hour due to dehydration. elevation was not an issue for me. this hike is due more respect than any other i've done.

as far as going back down. only a few on this board are worth...

[KathyW]

C2C is about 21 miles with just under 11,000' gain. It's harder than San Gorgonio, but you should be able to do C2C if you can do San Gorgonio. Adjust your starting time based on the heat and don't go at all on a hot day unless you're acclimated to the heat.

[bluerail]

If you're looking at going back down, be in very good shape...you will be coming back down in warm weather (...and I live here and I'm adjusted to the heat), you will be depleted and worn when you get back down to flatrock...and the next 8 miles will seem very long. That tram is a wonderful thing...after going up it, coming down that hill is a drag. I love being a tram wuss.

I think that the beauty and excitment of a harder trail can always make it easier than a shorter, boring, less exciting trail, put me where I have constant views, continuous uphill, and the miles fly by, stick me in the trees with occsional views, and I'm a little bored and worn. ( Vivian and Southfork are harder to me, but skyline is better work, as Jim pointed out..there is a bit of a gain difference.

these days are almost over...



Jim, you left no blanks....if I need info on something, you're the person I'd come to.

[TDGillam]

Carry salt with you to avoid cramps. I have hiked 4 times from the to the museum to the tram, the first time solo. I also made the mistake of retreating from about 4000' when PSP temp was only about 93 degrees, I don't think I would have made it if I had to go another 1/2 mile, maybe less! These other people on the board are expert hikers, mountaineers, and incredibly fit. Do yourself a favor an don't underestimate them and the knowledge they impart. It is an incredible hike and worth the preparation.

[cynthia23]

I'm concerned for you B. Little. Frankly I don't think this is a good plan at all. If I am understanding, you are traveling alone on a route you haven't been on before, during a time of year when it's dangerously hot. One of the heat stroke deaths was also in May. I was out on the trail today and by 9.30 it was perilously hot. I live here, am used to the trail, etc.--and still, it's like walking on coals. Remember, when you hike Skyline on a day when temps are over 90, it's a committed hike. Temps this week are forecast in the mid to high nineties range. If you hike now, you cannot retreat, even if you grow ill or discover halfway up that you don't have the strength to continue. All of the heat stroke deaths were novices hiking on plus 90 days who lost the trail and/or attempted to retreat. Instead I suggest you join a group hike the first time, preferably one that hikes Skyline in the fall. (I know the Sierra Club regularly does one.) You don't want to be one of the rescues and there's a real chance of that happening here.

[msugarpants]

Hey Little B.

First let me say, take my experience with a grain of salt. I have only done the hike to the tram twice, both successfully but slowly. I simply do not get out enough to train (yeah, yeah...poor excuse). I thought the top was disorienting and if i were alone, I woulda been hating life. I would NOT recommend doing this alone, point blank. On a different note, I had an opportunity to go up a while back with three friends who never went up before. They brought a fourth person i did not know which made me nervous. This person claimed to be in amazing shape, a marine who has done harder hikes in the middle east with 70lb packs. He also thought it would be a good idea to drink the night before and not sleep. The temps at the bottom were going to be 95 degrees. I opted out because of him and warning on this forum actually.....but here is what happened: That guy I did not know who claimed to be in amazing shape, bragging for days prior, cramped up at flatrock. He could not go on....So, they left him with a cell phone and told him to meet him at the top. he did feel as though he could make it eventually. Terrible idea, I know. As for the temperature.....they started when it was 75degrees....and they basically chased that temp all the way up....so, the 95degrees in the desert is only a problem IF you go down. The forums warned us about the heat, but that was not an issue whatsoever. There were lots of people on the trail that day. No one got lost and everyone, including the town idiot, made it up safely no later than 1:30 to the tram. They did not go beyond that point. I look forward to doing it again, but it will be on cold-ish muscles and probably will take 7 hours to get up to the tram....on much sleep and with someone who knows the trail well. if anyone wants to rise slowly up the hill, pm me You cant ALL be hardcore, are you? good luck. go with someone. be smart. be prepared. see you in da pit.