How hot is too hot?

[5150Irish]

When planning a hike (other then Skyline), at what forecasted temperature do you decide that it is too hot for a hike? Does the forecasted humidy also factor into your decision? What city's forecast do you utilize for your point of reference? Idyllwild?

What city's forecast do you utilize for a trip in the San Gorgonio area?

Thanks!

[zippetydude]

Call me wimpy, but if it's over 70 at the start, I don't do it.

(Skyline is my only exception, and I do it a very specific, very cautious way.)

In the San G wilderness, if you start at first light, you'll probably never get hot on the way up, and only a little warm on the way down.

It's a little tough getting up so early, but I can tell you, I've seen a bazillion people hot, sweaty and suffering as I make my way back down San G. Especially on Vivian, in that nasty part at the beginning where it's hot and rocky and steep. Do that at 5:00 a.m. with cool air and no direct sun, and it's, well, still rocky and steep, but you get my point.

By the way, a hip pack doesn't make me any hotter, but a backpack, even a camelbak, seems to add 10 degrees.

z

[magikwalt]

So tell me Irish, are you a drinking man? Better be with a name like that. Anyway, I like to make us of a variety of things starting with the temps associated with the actual area that I'm hiking in and the altitude I expect to be hiking from, through and to. Here's a handy little site that you can play with. Click your mouse where you will be hiking and then take a look at the altitude its giving you the weather for.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapCli ... &map.y=105

After that take a look at how fast the temps are rising verse the approximate 3º-3.5º temp drop for each 1000ft of elevation gained and see how you look trying to out run the sun. If you are going longer than 3-4 hours then factor in your typical heart rate drift factor and hydration loss to see if your going to fry your brain in the desert heat!

[Perry]

I would have second what Walt said and what Zip said in the other thread about climbing faster than the temperature. It's doable in the summer if....

1. You're acclimatized to the heat. For those of us who live in the desert, 110 is a normal temperature in the afternoon. We're used to it. People from LA are always commenting on how hot it is because they don't live in the heat.
2. You start shortly after sunrise.
3. You can reach the tram in 4 hours or less. (Don't start before sunrise or you'll trip on rocks.) First-timers underestimate their time and some think that first peak is near the tram. It's not. It's only a third of the way.
3. You carry 1 1/2 to 2 gallons of refrigerated or partially-frozen water.
4. You have plenty of salt and carbohydrates.

Alternatively you could start around 12:00 to 2:00am with a really bright lamp and hike slow.

[cynthia23]

This is a good question, 5150. MagikW gives some good guidelines. I also think there is an element of personal variability tied to ethnicity. Some people, like Pavel the Ironman, seem to function very well in high temps. Pavel reports he does poorly in cooler temps and seems to hit his stride when temps are over 80. This may well be a function of ethnicity: Pavel is Greek. People of Mediterrerean, African, or Latin American extraction seem to do well in the heat, probably because they evolved bodily mechanisms that responded to their warm conditions. On the other hand, people of Northern European extraction don't seem to do so well in heat, and perform better in cooler temps. With your name, I strongly suspect you, CrazyIrish, to be ... uh ... Irish. I am also half Irish (gramps emigrated from Belfast) and I notice that the conditions under which I seem to flourish athletically (Inasmuch as I can ever be said to flourish athletically) are cool, foggy, moist, overcast days. By an amazing Darwinian coincidence, that pretty much describes the climate of Ireland....alas, cool, foggy days are rather infrequent here. But at least I have an excuse for my lousy times ....I think the best advice is trial and error: go out in various weather conditions and notice how you perform. Keep written track. Attend carefully to subtle symptoms, such as a slight headache, irritation, fatigue, or other "mental" symptoms. These often flag overheating. the bottom line is to pay attention to how you feel. It is pointless to work out in situations when it's too hot for your body: you won't be able to push yourself hard enough to get a good cardiovascular work-out. "Pushing through" overheating is a terrible idea and as I discussed elsewhere will rapidly lead to heat exhaustion and a mild form of brain damage, and one bad case of heat exhaustion predisposes you to worse cases in the future, which can really screw up future work-outs. It's better when it's too hot--for you-- to seek a cooler place or work out indoors/in a pool etc. This is being sensible, not wimpy.

[Perry]

Another tip: avoiding or minimizing caffeine is a good idea, as it impairs tolerance to the heat by constricting blood vessels near the skin.

Sometimes there are patterns in ethnic groups, but the diversity within a group is usually more significant than the statistical differences when comparing groups.

[halhiker]

Today was too hot.

I tend to disagree on being used to 110 degree heat. I've lived in the desert for over twenty years and I never get used to it. I tolerate it. My wife gets sick of me complaining about the heat and always talking about going to the beach and the mountains to get away from it. I live in the desert and I can tolerate 30 below as well as anyone so I think it's often a mental thing.

I think the best idea is to start not at sunrise but at first light usually an hour before sunrise. I have also found that the temperature at the start tends to stay constant most of the way if you move quickly. Now the radiant heat from the sun beating on you adds something but if you start when it's 70 expect it never to get over 80 if you move quickly (and I mean an under six hour pace).

Humidity only becomes a factor when the hurricanes are off of Mexico and send the moisture up here in August. The problem is that it keeps the overnight low elevated by holding in the heat so it never cools down. Watch your overnight low more than your humidity and you should be OK. And in my opinion, your overnight low should be 65-70 MAX or it's too hot.

Hal

[KathyW]

Even in the Sierra it was hot this past weekend - it was 91 degrees at Roads End (Cedar Grove) when I came out from my trip to Mount Brewer. There doesn't seem to be any escape from it, but the best thing to do is start really early. This weekend I'm going to do a conditioning hike up Baldy, but I'll try to start by 5 am.

[5150Irish]

Thank you all for the feedback. I see it is not as simple as a weather forecast to determine if it is too hot for hiking. Many other factors to consider!

And yes, MAGIKWALT, I do enjoy the adult beverages. On my recent San Gorgonio hike I had brought two cans of beer with the intention of sharing with my hiking partner to celebrate reaching the summit. But since we turned around they were not consumed. No worries about the weight. It was lite beer.

[Ellen]

Howdy all

I thought it was hot on the San Bernardino peak trail last Sunday. Ha!

I went up it again yesterday to celebrate July 4th (in other words, to expend calories so I could justify eating and drinking).

I left a 4:45 AM. It was toasty at Angelus Oaks (6,000 ft) even then. The gnats, misquitos, and biting flies were out in force. Summited at 8 AM exactly (about 10,600 ft). Hung the American flag bandana on the wood post and laid down under a pine tree to enjoy the shade for a bit. I was covered with dried salt. Realized I'd have to eventually deal with the heat, bugs (applied DEET which helped), sighed, and started down at 8:45 AM.

It was HOT from the Columbine springs junction (about 8,500 ft) on down. I even eyed the bottled water some kind soul left by a tree near the sign. Then I remembered the jerks who stole Walt's water cache on Skyline in June and realized this supply could save someone's life.

My feet were on fire from the wilderness sign (about 30 minutes left to descend). It was over 90 degrees at 11:15 AM when I reached my car. I carried three liters and could have used four.

Happened to check the NOAA web site and found heat warnings even for our local mountains. Tried to warn the hikers going up but we all know how people don't like unsolicited advice.

Miles of smiles,
Ellen
AKA Dead Blond Hiking