"shortcuts" on Skyline

[Rick F]

I've only been up Skyline twice. Once last year and once last week. Although the trail is not maintained by a public, beauracratic agency, I do notice lots of voluntary maintenance. At many of the places where the more faint use trails diverge from the most established trail, people have placed tree limbs, rocks or brush to help discourage hikers from taking those shortcuts. Thank-you to people who do this.

I prefer the established switchbacks, going more directly up on the shortcuts would exhaust me sooner and it would end up adding time to my hike.

[zippetydude]

Since we're all (hopefully!) friends here, I would mention that some "fast" people that love to try to set personal best times (yes, I'm one of them!) also take time to maintain the "main" trail.

Remember the horrible orange dots everywhere? I removed all that I saw up to Coffman's, (it was somewhere between 50 and 100 dots spray painted on rocks to show the way) and someone else here removed the rest.

And I know Steve and Fern took the better part of a day repairing the trail up around 5000' where a shortcut had actually caused the trail to erode.

I mention this because there is a potential for "us" and "them" to develop on a topic like this, and it's always healthy to start from a positive perspective.

z

[AlanK]

Since we're all (hopefully!) friends here, I would mention that some "fast" people that love to try to set personal best times (yes, I'm one of them!) also take time to maintain the "main" trail.

Remember the horrible orange dots everywhere? I removed all that I saw up to Coffman's, (it was somewhere between 50 and 100 dots spray painted on rocks to show the way) and someone else here removed the rest.

And I know Steve and Fern took the better part of a day repairing the trail up around 5000' where a shortcut had actually caused the trail to erode.

I mention this because there is a potential for "us" and "them" to develop on a topic like this, and it's always healthy to start from a positive perspective.

Amen to that.

I think it's great to push oneself and go for PRs -- if one likes such things. Of course, one can set PRs on an established course. I would even argue that it means more than constantly tweaking ones routes. Compare apples to apples. But I also like cross country travel, route finding, variety in general, and so on.

In this situation, I think we need to heighten awareness that there are many people on the mountain these days and some old habits need to be reconsidered. I am not even sure who takes shortcuts and who doesn't. I just know that there are too many "trails" these days.

[lesper4]

In my frist trip on C2C i found the short cuts very confusing. I took a few but never on purpose. At the bottom we got lost and ended up following trambled grass. towards the middle i ate with some other hikers and when we continued on it turns out we werent not on the path (looked like it was natural until you got the the main path. Short cuts are bad for the envirement and make it dificault for new comers to the trail and I am typcaily leading my groups. It was also my first time night hiking

[zippetydude]

Hi Alan. I know you and I have talked before about that section on the VC trail (above High Creek) that I believe you very kindly described as "over-engineered". There's a good example of simply going xc - I cut hard left up the ravine and avoid the trail completely. I also like that route because it's so rocky, it would be impossible to tell I had passed through, making no impact on the wilderness.

In contrast, the place where there are the most paths on Skyline falls just around 4000 feet, right? Where the trail takes that very long side loop that runs out and back, almost completely level? I think that's a nice part of the trail, but it's not efficient at all. Since it's so nice, it'll probably stay, but since it's not very efficient, there'll probably be an alternate route that stays also. Like I mentioned in my first post, I bet you give it a few years, and most of the new paths will simply go away, with just one or two regular routes remaining. Especially if we get good rain.

By the way, I agree with you. Apples to apples - makes sense if one is really trying to improve performance. I'm going to see if I can improve my time going up to the tram station this Saturday. Not the upper tram, the lower one. It's time for the Tram Road Challenge again. Why don't you bring that blazing fast boy of yours out here and let him win it?

z

[AlanK]

Hi Alan. I know you and I have talked before about that section on the VC trail (above High Creek) that I believe you very kindly described as "over-engineered". There's a good example of simply going xc - I cut hard left up the ravine and avoid the trail completely. I also like that route because it's so rocky, it would be impossible to tell I had passed through, making no impact on the wilderness.

I love that rocky route as much as I hate those particular switchbacks. That shortcut is in the spirit of some of the Whitney ones.

In contrast, the place where there are the most paths on Skyline falls just around 4000 feet, right? Where the trail takes that very long side loop that runs out and back, almost completely level? I think that's a nice part of the trail, but it's not efficient at all. Since it's so nice, it'll probably stay, but since it's not very efficient, there'll probably be an alternate route that stays also. Like I mentioned in my first post, I bet you give it a few years, and most of the new paths will simply go away, with just one or two regular routes remaining. Especially if we get good rain.

By the way, I agree with you. Apples to apples - makes sense if one is really trying to improve performance. I'm going to see if I can improve my time going up to the tram station this Saturday. Not the upper tram, the lower one. It's time for the Tram Road Challenge again. Why don't you bring that blazing fast boy of yours out here and let him win it?

Why didn't you ask me to come win it? I might have ditched the kid and taken you up on it. Well, I may be a bit slow in old age but I could at least finish it!

But I will be at Prado Park watching the SCIAC cross country championships this Saturday morning. And Eric, 21 years old as of last Wednesday, will be running. Easier course (than the Tram) too!

[bluerail]

...delete


But tell Eric I said happy birthday, will you Alan.

[drinkbrew]

In my frist trip on C2C i found the short cuts very confusing. I took a few but never on purpose. At the bottom we got lost and ended up following trambled grass. towards the middle i ate with some other hikers and when we continued on it turns out we werent not on the path (looked like it was natural until you got the the main path. Short cuts are bad for the envirement and make it dificault for new comers to the trail and I am typcaily leading my groups. It was also my first time night hiking

I agree on some of the shortcuts being confusing. I have only been on the trail twice now, the first time to 5000 ft and back down and last sunday to the tram. There was a few spots that the "shortcuts" looked more like the main trail and I wasn't sure which way was right. Most of them in the first 2/3 you could tell which ones where cutting the switchbacks, but the closer to the top I got it was harder to tell which were the main trail. As a newbie to the trail there was a few times on the last part that I thought it seemed a bit wrong but didn't notice the main trail until until the shortcut I accidentally took came across the main trail again. Some of the times it was downed trees and others it was just hard to tell which way was the main way since some of the shortcuts were looking more used then the main trail.

[cynthia23]

Iagree with Z that most on this board try to be responsible. ( I remember when he painted over all the orange dots--a heroic endeavor.) However, some only care about shortening their time and see the switchbacks as pointless interruptions of their quest to cut two and a half seconds of their PR. However irritating endless switchbacks are, they aren't 'pointless'. They are an erosion control device. Shortcuts which go straight up have another name during a rainstorm: a landslide. If you have ever hiked Skyline during a rainstorm (I have) you will quickly see how problematic the shortcuts are: mud and sand pours down them, pulling away all the vegetation. If we want to keep hiking Skyline, we all need to be better stewards.

[bluerail]

The easiest way to tell if a trail is an Indian trail : Lack of switchbacks, they generally went straight up.

I just found that interesting...