Sat June 2 -- who's on?

[GigaMike]

Cy- It was great to finally hike with you. I'm amazed at the pace you'll able to set! I'll be back soon to do the entire trail to the summit. I hope to see you on the trail again.

Ellen- I'm one of the members in Cy's group that you blew past. Sarah and I had a great time talking with you at the tram station while you waited for your beer Thanks again for the Smarties!

Magikwalt- Now I know that was you who we were talking to at flat rock. Nice to meet you!

Zippetydude- We seemed to have avoided each other again!

[magikwalt]

I'm not sure if they drank them but they left all six bottles laying empty next to where I had them stashed. I normally carry so they are just for emergencies. Sure hope I solved an emergency for them.

[zippetydude]

Hi GM. There were two people talking with Walt when I came up the trail. I was actually looking at Walt (being as he was, relaxing on the rock) and didn't really have a chance to meet them. I believe it was a guy and a girl, but the encounter was brief. (I ended up having a great time getting to know Walt as we hiked and never saw them again.) Was that you?

z

[magikwalt]

Hi GigaMike,

Yes we spoke at flat rock and then again when you found me caved in just before the traverse. I was actually trying to will that big rock I was laying on to fly to the tram station.

ZippetyDude came along about 3-4 minutes behind you and would have introduced himself had it not been for his carrying me up to Long Valley. When he unfurls that cape of his its awesome!

Walt

[GigaMike]

Zippety- Yep, that was Sarah and I. We kept hearing and breifly seeing you & Walt below us on the way up. I remember thinking to myself "I wonder if that's Zippetydude?"

Walt- Glad you made it out ok. It sure was warm near the top!

[whitneyfan]

Hello bold adventurers. I was also on this trail June 2, but started much later in the morning and busted out less than 1/2 way due to muscle cramps.
I sent an email to Cy with a question on how to avoid cramps, and he referred me to Ellen and this forum. If anyone has some thoughts let me know. I will repeat the details I wrote to Cy below. Thanks.

I have a question about physical and nutritional
preparation just prior to an intense hike.
I tried the Chino trail this Saturday, June 2, 2007
and had to abort not quite half way due to muscle
cramps. I started at 5:30 am and had to quit at about
9 am. I figure I was about 4.5- 5 miles up.

The thing is, that I have done several long day hikes
in CA for the past few years and never suffered muscle
cramps before. I did Mt. Whitney 2 times last summer
- once via Mountaineers Route, Vivian Creek- Gorgonio
2 times, San Bernadino Peak 2 times, and San
Jacinto from the tram . Never a hint of muscle
cramps on any of these hikes. I also workout at the
gym with weights year round and do short steep hikes
in LA all year to stay in condition. I'm a male, 49
years old.

I have to admit that the Chino trail is more strenuous
than all of the above mentioned trails. It looks like
steep rugged stepping all the way.
I carried about 4 liters of liquids including a
bottle of Gatorade, and Carbo-Force that I mix in my
water for a continuous carb-drip. I also snack every
1/2 hour or so on fruit to keep my carb levels up.

I thought I had it all worked out, but this trail
kicked my ass right from the start. I'm not sure if
it was the continuous vertical stepping from the
start, or that my pack was overweighted with water, or
both.

Anyway, I'm thinking I need stronger legs, or that I
need to nutritionally prepare differently before the
hike. Maybe drink a bottle of Gatorade before
starting out, or bulk up on bannanas, salt and water
to get plenty of electrolytes - potassium, sodium,
water. I'm thinking I may have depleted my
electrolytes too quickly at the start.

[KathyW]

Whitneyfan - The only time I had problems with muscle cramps on the Skyline Trail was when I started late (around 5 am) on a hot day; so maybe it's the heat that is the difference between your hike Saturday and the other strenuous hikes you have done.

Kathy

[magikwalt]

I find that the first 4,000ft of C2C is where I push too hard and sweat too much. As the temps are now starting to get higher the process starts much faster. I routinely work out moving up to the 4,000ft mark during the week and notice how much more fluid I'm requiring. One of my personal reminders is to slow down the first 4,000ft of the hike.

[Ellen]

Howdy Perry

Two women hikers offered assistance -- one has done Skyline. Most hikers/backpackers I've run into on San J and other mountains are good Samaritans.

Howdy Walt

I am outraged that someone stole your water cache On Skyline, water is a matter of life and death. It was awesome of you to share your water -- I've done the same on Whitney.

I've experienced severe leg cramps and other dehydration symptoms on Skyline -- I'd rather get scratched up and fall in a cactus again.

Howdy GigaMike

Thanks for your kind words about my pace -- it pales in comparison to the fast people on this forum. I really enjoyed talking with you and Sarah while waiting for the rest of the group.

Howdy WhitneyFan

I agree with KathyW -- an earlier start may have made all the difference. I started at 2 AM and was sweating in the parking lot before I even started. At least I didn't have heat stress from direct sunlight for the first three hours of hiking.

I've started Skyline too late on hot days and have been nearly paralyzed by leg cramps.

Consider waiting until the fall to hike Skyline again.

I think most of your issues were due to dehydration and electrolyte (primarily sodium) loss. Heat related muscle cramps are thought to occur to an imbalance of body's water and electrolyte concentrations. Although you carried four quarts of fluid, you only had one bottle of Gatorade to replace your electrolyte losses. If it was regular Gatorade, it only provided 440 mg per quart.

Average sweat sodium losses are 800 milligrams per quart of sweat. There are many ways to replace sweat sodium losses. You can use:
1) Sports drinks which contain higher amounts of sodium (e.g. Gatorade Endurance and PowerBar Endurance).
2) Sports gels with more sodium (PowerGel).
3) Low dose salt tablets
4) Added salt to your Carbo-Force solution. One half teaspoon of salt contains 1000 mg of sodium. For a three quart Camelbak, you could use 2 and 1/2 teaspoon of table salt (2500 milligrams). This assumes CarboForce has little or no sodium -- I'll have to do a check.
5) Perry (aka the Big Kahuna) supplied an excellent sports drink recipe that you may want to try.

I drank 1 quart of Gatorade Endurance prior to starting and carried three quarts in a Camelbak. At the tram, I had about 24 ounces left.

Miles of smiles,
Ellen

[magikwalt]

Hi Ellen,

In reading your post I just realized I didn't drink my quart of Poweraide before I left the truck. That's pretty much a routine with me but getting up a couple hours early must have dulled my wits.

Thanks for the reminder.

Walt