Rescued hikers ...

[halhiker]

"One should examine oneself for a very long time before thinking of condemning others."~Moliere

I think those who spend hours upon hours hiking in the wilderness probably do spend a lot of time examining themselves. Just my opinion.

[zippetydude]

I think both Kathy and lee are right on track. Why criticize until we know what's going on? I get lost on a regular basis...I just pay careful attention to backtracking landmarks, and find my way out again. This is much harder to do in the snow, so it seems to me it could easily happen twice, even to an intelligent guy. The toughest thing for me to understand is how he had to guts to signal for a rescue a second time. I probably would have died of starvation and embarrassment before I worked up enough courage to make that second call.

z

[skunkboy]

Lee said:

Emin, We know you read the board. Please sign in and explain/exonerate yourself before things get real ugly

I agree. Emin come and tell us what the hell went wrong. Be like hikerbiker and give us an after action report.
http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic.php?t=2214

As Z said:

] I get lost on a regular basis...I just pay careful attention to backtracking landmarks, and find my way out again. This is much harder to do in the snow, so it seems to me it could easily happen twice, even to an intelligent guy.

Hell yeah. You get in the woods and can't see shit and you're looking at your compass, and you go, shall I pull more this way? Or that?

[RMRUpete]

I have been following this board for over a year now and think it is great and very helpful for new people wanting to do new hikes. Your group here puts out good information and I think helps keep people out of trouble. Decided to join the board today to clear this up. I have been on RMRU for 40 years this May 2010, joined when I turned 21 and I am now 61, still out hiking a lot. I was on the team that found Emin at 2am. I am also taking over the RMRU WEB site and will have it updated very soon.

Quick story, Emin rode the Tramway up to the top and got a permit to hike to Willow Creek Crossing. Started out and did not like the snow on the trail to Hidden Lake Divide, so he turned back. On his way back he ran into Monica who also had a permit to go to Willow Creek Crossing. They did not know each other, they talked and decided to go together to Willow Creek Crossing. They got to WCC and then decided to hike to Laws and Caramba thinking it would loop back to the Tramway. Halfway down to Caramba they realized it was not a loop, by then it was 6pm and they started back and got caught by darkness and lost the trail and called for help.

RMRU was called by the Sheriff at 10pm and the Tramway stayed open so we could get up which we did around midnight. Made voice contact around 2pm and had them back at the Tramway at 4pm. More to follow on the RMRU WEB site soon.

[Cy Kaicener]

Thanks Pete. The RMRU website can clear up a lot of the newspaper's inconsistancies. We appreciate the excellent work you are doing.
A volunteer for the park said there were 169 rescues in the park for the first three monthe of this year. That speaks volumes for what you are up against.
Here is the link where I saw this in the comments of a Snow Creek trip report.
http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthread ... 32/gonew/1

[halhiker]

I have been following this board for over a year now and think it is great and very helpful for new people wanting to do new hikes. Your group here puts out good information and I think helps keep people out of trouble. Decided to join the board today to clear this up. I have been on RMRU for 40 years this May 2010, joined when I turned 21 and I am now 61, still out hiking a lot. I was on the team that found Emin at 2am. I am also taking over the RMRU WEB site and will have it updated very soon.

Quick story, Emin rode the Tramway up to the top and got a permit to hike to Willow Creek Crossing. Started out and did not like the snow on the trail to [fragile place] Divide, so he turned back. On his way back he ran into Monica who also had a permit to go to Willow Creek Crossing. They did not know each other, they talked and decided to go together to Willow Creek Crossing. They got to WCC and then decided to hike to Laws and Caramba thinking it would loop back to the Tramway. Halfway down to Caramba they realized it was not a loop, by then it was 6pm and they started back and got caught by darkness and lost the trail and called for help.

RMRU was called by the Sheriff at 10pm and the Tramway stayed open so we could get up which we did around midnight. Made voice contact around 2pm and had them back at the Tramway at 4pm. More to follow on the RMRU WEB site soon.

Do you mean 2 AM and 4 AM instead of PM?

Thanks for the report.

[Hikin_Jim]

Hi, Pete,

Welcome to the board! It's good to have you. I really appreciate input from SAR members.

I look at the RMRU incident write-ups regularly. I haven't seen an update for a while, so I'm very happy to hear that you are taking over the updates.

I read the write-ups with an eye toward:
-What can I learn from this?
-What would I have done in that situation?
-How could I have prevented the situation in the first place?

I think that last question may be the most important.

They got to WCC and then decided to hike to Laws and Caramba thinking it would loop back to the Tramway. Halfway down to Caramba they realized it was not a loop, by then it was 6pm and they started back and got caught by darkness and lost the trail and called for help.

Did they not have a map?

HJ

[RMRUpete]

Still catching up from a night of no sleep. Years ago I could stay up all night and continue just fine. But now in middle age I find it takes a few days to recover. Yes 2am and 4am and rode down the tramway at 6:30am.

I think they had some kind of a map, but not a topo map, maybe the premit has a map on it? But what ever they had they did not really know how to read it.

We are thinking that a 3 strikes rule should be put in effect for rescues, 3 rescues and you out of luck. We have only had 1 other person that we rescued twice, 6 years apart, both times with broken bones from a fall on trails. But she was a 60+ year old woman the first time we helped her. She goes out hiking all the time and just had weak bones. We do not mind helping her, she was prepeared and know what she was doing. We told her to keep hiking.

[kd]

Often my Skyline hikes include a hike to Humber Park in Idyllwild via the Willow Creek trail. The cut off to Caramba is along the way.

The dots do connect. When I called the Ranger station this week they said there was still a foot of snow on the Willow Creek trail. Very easy to get lost in those conditions.

Does anyone know for sure (about the snow)???

[lee]

Thank you for your long service, Pete.
I'll try my best not to make your website :)

We are thinking that a 3 strikes rule should be put in effect for rescues, 3 rescues and you out of luck.

You don't know who you are rescuing until after the rescue, right ?
As you mentioned, the same-person-rescued-twice scenario is a rare scenario, but I think the person rescued for the second time ty the RMRU should be made an indentured servant to the RMRU for one year, providing whatever skill they possess.
Emin, what you got for the RMRU :)