Oh what the hell...

[classvtony]

"We climbed over the barbed-wirefence at seven o'clock and started upthrough brush and rocks."
Well, you see how long the trespassing route has been pushed.

" a possible pow-wow to address the legal & practical aspects of SC & even Skyline"

Don't get worked up over what you cannot even remotely control.

I don't need to tell you that living and one of the most litigious states in the US, that doing something like this and then posting for public consumption any results, impressions or advice will leave you open to the lawyers of the newly bereaved.

Living near and using on a daily basis the Snow Creek drainage and the state park wilderness, I too came to think of it as "mine". Yes, the DWA at that time also could kiss my ass.
My suggestion is you continue doing what you have done and what has been done for 70 years. Go do it, enjoy it, write about it, go do it again.
People will do snow creek that have never read this board or knew of its existence. They will be of many ability levels. 98% will have a "good" time.

"there have been a noticeable increase in SAR's missions on this mt."

I don't know about the State Park missions but judging from the amount of missions run by RMRU there has not been a tremendous increase. Their missions are posted on a monthly basis on their website.

The best thing to do to increase the safety of this ascent would be to hire lawyer's and bust a short path through the DWA.

"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am — a reluctant enthusiast... a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it’s still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards".
(Edward Abby)

[bluerail]

you had to pull something like Abbey out from under the sofa cushion ? Tony, I was really thinking how nice it would be if you still lived at snowcreek..you have got to be a fun guy ! Maybe someday, I'll get up there where you are, really like to meet you.

Scotts absolutely right on my issues...

So..is it time to party at your house Zip ? I miss your girls... and I even miss you.

.....I just wanna climb, it keeps me from jumping off a cliff.

[NormaR]

"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am — a reluctant enthusiast... a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it’s still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards". (Edward Abby)

i don't know what to say, except i don't want to see anyone get hurt on Snow Creek, especially my friends. Do your homework, calculate the risks, understand your limitations and damn i love that quote from Edward Abby!

[classvtony]

In 1979 Ed Abby was all of the park aids and RMRU members hero. He was the voice of most shaggy folk that wanted to just be out there. I have a signed copy of The Monkey Wrench Gang. Meet me on the East side of the Sierras. I no longer do the steep stuff. But if you like 6+ days out, fish or want a hillside of Ansel Adams style trees (blurail what cam do you use?) I know 'em.
PS David Quammen is a great read also.

[zippetydude]

.....I just wanna climb, it keeps me from jumping off a cliff.

Well, I'll say this...it's much better going up...the end of the trip is a lot more fun.

z

[guest]

Hi, I reply,
I'm here to help, and I've spoken with many friends on SAR's & who work on this mt.
I'm surely not getting worked up about this, nor am I attempting to control something, I'm hoping to help keep this mt. available to as many as possible from many different routes.

If you take some time & speak with some of the people working on San Jacinto, many will tell you there's been serious discussion about regulating access to some degree, as the costs and use of scarce resources has risen.

I refereed to an noticeable, (not tremendous) increase in SAR's missions in the over 20 yrs. I've been on this mt. In particular, Skyline itself, (just ask a certain gal on this board who might have been spared another cold night at 10,700 ft. as SAR's was busy pulling a few of at tower 4 or 5).

I would also just like to "keep on climbing" and let the winds blow their course, if fact I'll bet you could hike Whitney w/ out a permit many moons ago, but not now that's quite popular.

happy climbing

ss

[Perry]

This is great and all, but where's that avalanche video?...

[classvtony]

If you take some time & speak with some of the people working on San Jacinto, many will tell you there's been serious discussion about regulating access to some degree, as the costs and use of scarce resources has risen.
*******

There are now restrictions on climbing this route. What is the wilderness permit now required? Permits are now needed at the Half Dome cables. Anybody can get one. The agencies now cannot refuse a permit to anyone asking. Nobody showing up for a Whitney permit or being there when cancellations are available or have pulled a lottery win are refused. They will rent you a bear canister! They need user days! The Aerial Tram allows a bazillion peeps into a wilderness that would have one thousandth of the current use without it. To shut off access to the Snow Creek use they would have to show cause. What would that cause be? $ ?

How do you know who to restrict? You don't. Guided trips only?

Got any idea how much is spent on Whitney in a season? I have watched a guy walk right off the end of a switchback and had just passed me and looked fine. At least the approach of SC is daunting enough to pop the balloon of wannabes. The Whitney Rangers have no such "fence".

I refereed to an noticeable, (not tremendous) increase in SAR's missions in the over 20 yrs.
******
Yup, we all have seen it everywhere. Better lighter gear, peeps that have the aerobic capacity of Rinhold Messiner that never get above the San Gabriels, showing up at trailheads where they stand a chance of getting FUBAR. It is their right. It is our right. To get it wrong if that is what happens. You do anything that requires skill and balance long enough and you lose the roll sometime. Hopefully, we live and learn. Climb on.

[Dave G]

This is great and all, but where's that avalanche video?...

[classvtony]

toss it on youtube!!!