Desert Water Agency illegally hassling hikers at Snow Creek

[tinaballina]

[Bivouac]

in alaska we just go stand in front of the train...it always stops!

[Rumpled]

How is the State Park dealing with Wilderness Permits in this situation?
Seems to me going up to Idylwild to get a permit is a pain - do they issue any other way or in advance?

Sounds like DWA has too much pull with the State Park and/or USFS.
That and they are drunk on power that they do not have.

[Perry]

I can't have much of an opinion because I've been out of the loop these days, but I do think it's a bad idea to post future trip dates and/or walk right in front of the caretaker's house. It's possible they aren't "gestapo" but just doing their jobs and don't want to face criticism from people who might ask, "Why are you letting people trespass?" (so blatantly).

I tried to delete my old Snow Creek photos. Geocities closed, but strangely they keep my site up and won't let me edit it.

Whether it can be done legally without getting severely cut up on bushes...thoughts?

[AlanK]

I can't have much of an opinion because I've been out of the loop these days, but I do think it's a bad idea to post future trip dates and/or walk right in front of the caretaker's house. It's possible they aren't "gestapo" but just doing their jobs and don't want to face criticism from people who might ask, "Why are you letting people trespass?" (so blatantly).

I tried to delete my old Snow Creek photos. Geocities closed, but strangely they keep my site up and won't let me edit it.

Whether it can be done legally without getting severely cut up on bushes...thoughts?

It does strike me that Snow Creek has become very popular and is the subject of many posts on various message boards, including trip reports with lots of wonderful pictures. Given that the DWA people do not want anyone crossing their square mile, all of this hoopla is pretty obviously a direct challenge to them. There may have been a tendency to overlook activity in the past, or at least not go to much effort to enforce the ban. But rapidly increasing use is too much of a challenge to ignore. So, trouble has been brewing for a long time.

At the other end, there must be lots of talk about illegal climbs, many rescues, etc. And that talk must include pressure on State Park people to enofrce their permit policy at the San Jacinto summit. So, trouble has been brewing there too.

On the other hand, the harassment outside of DWA land recently does invite terms like "goons" or, for the more hyperbolic, "Gestapo" and "SS." That should generate protests.

A truly legal route is one obvious solution, but it is still of limited value if permits are not issued and rules are enforced to the letter upstairs on the summit.

I hope that this all gets resolved in favor of climbing.

[halhiker]

I got a permit when I did the PCT trip from Snow Creek to the Tram in November. Permits are self issue at Long Valley. I just got mine the day before. The permit issue is easy to overcome. Just have someone put a copy of your permit for your party in the day of your adventure. They ask for your permit, produce it.

I think the route from the palms should be the way to go in the future. I scoped this out last year and I'm glad someone did it with success. Just like going through the brush below Coldwater Canyon, I think if this route sees more usage the brush issue will become moot. Especially if someone brings loppers along.

Or maybe we can just send Ellen up there in shorts.

[Zé]

what if someone scans a copy of one and puts online, then people can just print out one whenever they want?

[AlanK]

Having to take the tram up and down the day before ones hike in order to get a self-issue permit in Long Valley is not what I would call "easy." As I understand the system, one the rangers must have a copy of the permit in order for it to be valid. If that is correct, copying and distributing blank permits will not work.

This is all silly, of course. One should be able too fill out permits on-line during some interval, say 24 hours, before ones hike. It would be nice to get with the 20th century before the 21st is over.

[halhiker]

I'm didn't say it was easy but it beats getting fined for not having a permit.

[AlanK]

I'm didn't say it was easy but it beats getting fined for not having a permit.

Amen to that!

I did not mean to disparage your solution. I admire innovation in the face of bureaucracy.