deleted

[Cy Kaicener]

This cat and mouse game has been going on for many years and was not a problem with two or three climbers at a time, but a large organised group of people in double digits definately started this. It would be interesting to get a park rangers view and their explanation on how to deal with the DWA.

[Andy]

I'm just curious how practical the round-about route is by avoiding the DWA "square mile". Obviuosly, people have recently done it, but would this be considered a viable solution for future accents...maybe after more of a use trail is developed? If so, it seems all one would have to do, is secure a permit for entry at the PCT trailhead with an exit destination of Long Valley via the peak.

[Nick-SJM]

First, I am replying as an individual and not representing any of the groups that I volunteer for. Unless there are some other factors that I am not aware of, and have been expressed on this site, if individuals did not enter the DWA property, the actions of the DWA employees appear wrong. The property concerned seems to be BLM, Forest Service and State Park property. It appears the DWA has some explaining to do.

I believe the State Park has concerns about the safety of climbers. The regular contributors to this site seem to be capable and responsible climbers. However, this site is viewed by many who take on Skyline and Snow Creek when they are not capable and responsible. The State Park and RMRU have had to respond to numerous incidents to rescue people who should not have been on Skyline or Snow Creek. The State Park and RMRU put themselves at risk doing this. Of course, the climbers have the right to travel across these public lands. However, try to appreciate that others who may need to come to your assistance hope that only capable and responsible individuals take on these challenges.

As suggested above, stop by the Ranger Station at Long Valley and chat with the staff. I think you will find them helpful and caring.

[sdtrackrunner]

+1 on the helpful and caring staff at the long valley (and every other) ranger station. Like I said before, talk with them and your snow creek questions will be answered, and I think you'll be pleased with the answers.

[asabat]

However, this site is viewed by many who take on Skyline and Snow Creek when they are not capable and responsible.

So true. In the old days (pre-internet) we had to rely on word-of-mouth. There weren't many climbing guides either, and most of those were deliberately missing much detail to leave some adventure in. Now we google for a hike or climb, download a GPS track, and head out, confident that since someone did it before, we can do it, and in any case we have a cell phone to call for help if we get in trouble.

[Perry]

Down with that climbing swine! They have pooped in our precious Palm Springs Golf Course Lawn water for the last time!!!

Does anybody know if Snow Creek water is used on golf courses?

[Perry]

Apparently not:
http://www.dwa.org/products/recycled_water.aspx

That's good.

[bluerail]

I dont use a gps. I figure if I can't do it without it..I should just go find something else to do. part of the reason I am out there, is to be capable and able to find a route, manuever through it, and end up safe at the other end. On my own abilities. ( however, stuck in the middle of nowhere in the pitch dark, I have kinda wished I had one with me)

Two of us have had absolutely fine results, going up the east ridge and avoiding the DWA property, no one has bothered us ( I really doubt any one would come up there to stop you, it's bad enough being a part of something that you want to do.) We will, in the future, continue to use the route. I have 2 teenage boys..how do you explain to them you've been arrested for trespassing ? The new route is already kind of established in our heads and we have found we hit our previous marks with pretty good precision along the 4000' level of that ridge. A simple drop down into the gorge into cross Fallscreek (above the falls), a nasty climb up for 20 minutes, go sw for a few minutes, and theres the trail. Nobody is trespassing, you stay out of everybodys way. The only part that is really rough, is the straight up climb from the palms to gain the ridge...I believe it's about 3000' in under 30 yards. It is steep ! Yesterday, we were 5 1/2 hours from our vehicle ( parked adjacent to snowcreek road, north side of hwy 111 ), to the snow tongue. Took an hour break, got on the snow, and witnessed so much of the evil that climb has to offer, I am clinging to the soft security of my chair and the wonderfulness of my refrigerator today. Crevasses that have gotten so dangerous it's trully frightening,a crumbling chockstone bridge that still tempts you to cross it, a 4minute and 48 second long avalanche with a 4' tall front wall at 8200' that we barely got out of the way of( this was an experience I will never forget ), postholing for hours (except where the slide had cleared the chute down to graded ice. and postholing the last 1500' for <2 1/2> hours !!! in butt deep snow that we knew was going to slab off and kill us.... and then the wind came up.....we barely made the last car down. we have done that route 4 out of the last 5 weekends, and after yesterday...I'm finding somewhere else to go play.

[neverwashasbeen]

Have you bought a lottery ticket since the climb?

Happy Trails

[skunkboy]

Jeez bluerail! My hats off to you and Fern. It sounds like you guys had the real "March or Die" epic. If I ever run into you, I'll buy you guys a beer. The last couple of weeks I've been mentally psyching myself up for a run at SC next weekend, but now, I think I'll turn my attentions elsewhere. Thanks for the TR.