deleted

[GigaMike]

You really don't want me to get started on this

Yes we do!

[backpack7]

http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic.php?t=2191

[NormaR]

i just read this and the other thread about the fiasco on Saturday.

personally, i'd rather the rangers be sitting at the TH for Skyline on hot weekend's alerting the hikers who use the trail of the dangers ahead and lowering the numbers of those who suffer and die each year from dehydration and heat stroke. Skyline has a lot more activity than Snow Creek and more deaths. but their concern Saturday didn't seem to be about safety or aiding visitors in enjoyment of the wilderness, it sounds like they were assuming all Snow Creek hikers access the canyon illegally and hoping to catch hikers without permits. what a lousy day for all involved.

any chance the small window of time each spring that Snow Creek may be safely snow climbed, can become a positive experience for all?????? or am i just Pollyanna?

[halhiker]

sure they have internet access just like the rest up us and can read the Snow Creek trip reports and posts regarding upcoming climbs.

Of course. Which begs the question, why didn't they speak to the individuals beforehand? PM's aren't hard... Most every ranger I have ever run into has been a really decent person, I think they go into that line of work because they love the outdoors, just like us...

So, what's going on? Sounds odd and out of character. Maybe they're just going to talk to each one as they arrive at the top. We'll hear more in the next couple of days. For now, I hope the climbers had fun without any undue trouble.

z

The ranger I spoke with seemed pretty upset about the climbers coming up the route. His supervisor was with him sitting and waiting for climbers to come up. I also thought it was unusual that they were going to this extreme. I have a feeling there must be some pressure being applied by other agencies to stop the flow of traffic up the route or at least over the DWA's land.

The rangers at the Tram generally are opposed to high adventure in general and it seems they would prefer to only have day hikers in THEIR wilderness. They used to hassle climbers on Coffman Crag and would remove bolts which were placed for safety.

They also had certain restrictions on climbing Snow Creek even back when you could legally get a permit from the DWA. I would not count on the State Park being a friend to climbers unless required to be by law.

[NormaR]

I would not count on the State Park being a friend to climbers unless required to be by law.

very, very...

[AlanK]

I would not count on the State Park being a friend to climbers unless required to be by law.

very, very...

Sad. Pathetic. Counterproductive. Etc.

[Vnthali]

The mountain does not belong to the Park Rangers or the Water Agency. As much cash as I paid out in taxes over the last thirty years of my working life, along with the taxes I will pay before I die, I have earned the right to walk or climb on any public land I damn well please. That is my position stated as clearly as I know how (minus a few choice expletives deleted).

[Sally]

Very good point there, Vnthali. Amen

[AlanK]

The mountain does not belong to the Park Rangers or the Water Agency. As much cash as I paid out in taxes over the last thirty years of my working life, along with the taxes I will pay before I die, I have earned the right to walk or climb on any public land I damn well please. That is my position stated as clearly as I know how (minus a few choice expletives deleted).

I have known climbers who pay no taxes. They have the same rights you do. It is fundamentally un-American to argue that one's liberties are related to how much one pays in taxes. Unfortunately, none of us has earned the right to walk on any public land we choose. For example, the fast lane of the westbound I-10 in Banning is public land.

Solving this problem is going to take more finesse than bravado. And I am all ofr solving it. I do believe that people should have the right to climb Snow Creek.

[neverwashasbeen]

If you really want to understand this access issue, follow the money.