ill chime in on the boy scout part...
Im 15 and was SPL of my troop and now am pretty much a JASM, but I know how hard it is to shut up a group of scouts at night. I have gotten to the point were I will seperate them, and get them to shut up. Last time I was in San J. with my scouts, the ranger told us another group was sitting on top of the propane tanks at the ranger station... some groups have better leaders then others, but sometimes we cant see what they are doing...
-CS
