Skyline 12.12

[Tim Le]

What is the usual pack list for a wintertime trip and does anyone know of guides who will lead the trip. We're not experienced in this type of travel and wouldn't presume to put ourselves in a life altering decision without adequate preparation.

If you're not experienced in snow travel and snow climbs, I wouldn't recommend Skyline in the winter. This is a very deceiving trail that gets much, much harder at the end. 7 hrs from Flat Rock to Grubbs Notch says it all!

There were several rescues last winter, probably due to people underestimating how long and how hard it is to climb that final portion in the snow. Here are two threads with posts from the people involved. The first one was on trail for 13 hrs before calling SAR and then another 5 hrs passed before they got off the mountain. The second group self-rescued but it took them almost 11 hours to go from 5,000 ft to the tram station.

http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic.php?t=1190
http://www.mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic.php?t=1230

My advice for winter mountaineering is to take it in baby steps. Start small, get some experience and then move up. There's a lot to learn from what gear works well to how to navigate to what's it like in different snow conditions which changes all the time. It's safer to do this first on other mountains or on other routes that are more forgiving. Skyline is very committing, the navigation can be difficult and there is a long, dangerous traverse in a shady, icy and steep part of the mountain. It will get even icier if you're delayed by postholing and end up there in the afternoon.

As for gear, you need all the normal technical gear like ice axe and crampons but I suggest bringing emergency gear like a bivy to survive at least one night out there.

[bluerail]

Mikeon, like Tim mentioned, knowing the snow really well would be a huge benefit, I was in a crash course yesterday that taxed me mentally and physically.I learned alot about snow that really should have been learned with baby steps instead. You really struggle to read the snow on the mountain, where it might be stable and somewhat firm, and where it's in drifts and will work you to death. And if it's raining...just don't go.
I have done that trail pretty much at least once a week since early last spring, alot of weeks even more, even when it's 110 I feel really good on that mountain. Yesterday I felt very vulnerable and being worked to death by that girl. I had been very nervous all week thinking about how hard the trip might be yesterday.....it was way, way worse than I had anticipated. Quite a trip, physically and spiritually, but for alot of those hours my head was preoccupied by the thought : never F@#*ing again !!
Be very careful if your thinking about going

[lee]

Thanks for what you wrote here, bluerail.

[Ellen]

Howdy Steve

You and Fernando are among a small handful of hikers who could climb Skyline in those conditions. Congratulations and please don't ever do anything like that again.

You were in my thoughts and prayers on Saturday. As Patrick noted, when the Iceman was blasting us on the ridge by Cornell, I did not even want to think about what you were going through

I was warm and comfortable at Las Casuelas when I received your text "trying to get to coffmans...this is f----ing hard" I was ecstatic to get home and read "11 hours" Thanks so much for staying in touch.

You are an Ironman, my friend.

From the heart,
Ellen

[nobohobo]

Quite a trip, physically and spiritually, but for alot of those hours my head was preoccupied by the thought : never F@#*ing again !!

hikers have a short term memory when it comes to this stuff, you'll be back doin' it again.
p.s. winter hikin'/trail breakin' ain't easy, it's a different gear, ( 1st low) and keep movin' forward.

[zippetydude]

Wow. Brutal. It's actually a good thing it was you and Fernando - only a very few could have done it without rescue.

You mentioned the mountain looks very different - did you ever feel lost? Were the traverses hard but doable, or did it look like you would slide off the side of the mountain?

I'm glad you two snowshoein' fools made it safely my friend. Let's talk about that north face of San G together (instead of this madness) for a fun snow trip.

z

[guest]

Hey Steve,
Thanks so much for that trip report, you convey just how brutal, unforgiving & relentless that ol mountain in a winter storm can be!
Remember a couple weeks ago after we summited, I told you I did it in similar conditions (definitely NOT recommended) a few years ago?

I know the trail very well (member of the 200+ club), have mountaineering experience & brought all the gear, train hard & long every week, and it all was barely enough to get me off that Mt. in those conditions.

Well what you wrote pretty much tells it like I felt.
It took every bit of my strength, courage & determination, plus some serious praying, to get to the tram.
Every step, as you say, can be an ordeal, constant changing snow, will you punch through to a rock or branch & twist an ankle or knee, will you shoe even come back out!
I had to ask a stranger to help me remove my cramp-ons once in the station, my fingers were pretty much useless.

And, to add to the increasing challenge, it might as well be mars, it looks so much different when it's snowing, or in my case 40 ft. of visibility. So navigation is somewhat of a crap shoot, your just hoping to recognize any landmark to get your bearings.

You were very fortunate to have Fernando as your mate on this epic, he's not only tough as nails, he's got the right composure for a survival ordeal.

Hopefully, people will read this and stay Far, Far away from this climb until spring.

Thanks for sharing,

scott 2

[bluerail]

Ellen I'm glad you guys made it back in one peice too, it was really lousy weather up there saturday, but man the pictures giga took are so incredibly cool I can't wait to get back up there.

Zip we never felt lost at all, of course finding that path of least resistance and easiest to travel was really difficult....impossible. Our visibility was bad, you couldn't really see from one ravine flute to the next very well, but just navigating each 10 yard stretch was such an endeavor. And as far as the steep chutes...they were snow instead of ice, so they felt a little better but not much, every step was slow and deliberate.

Scott , whats with the frickin landmarks ? you go up there so many times and you feel you know it like the back of your hand and all the sudden those huge rocks look so different. You end up not even sure which flute your in, and on top of the exhaustion, you end up really confused in a situation where your hoping for pinpoint accuracy. What an ordeal.

Whats really bad though, is I think Dave is right....

[NormaR]

Whats really bad though, is I think Dave is right....

Nah!... you were trailrunners. you "is" adventurer's now!

Brutal is the word for what you two endured. Successful is the word for having the endurance and composure to meet the intense challenge of the day. that last pitch is steep and i for one cannot imagine doing it in snowshoes. let alone the limited visability and rain. it sounds like crampons & axe would have made a difference but who would have known when you took off how the condtions were going to change?

so glad you and Fernando made it and hope your next snow travel day is a "bluebird day!" i think Z is right, a sweet ascent on the north face of San G sounds like the perfect antidote.

[bluerail]

Norma...I had spikes and axe with me..just turned out more shoes and poles required. and as for the Dave comment, it was the nobohobo Dave whos comment I was worried about. ..Am worried about. only time I'm running is if I'm chasing zip.