FASTER

[FIGHT ON]

Discounting over-the-counter meds, I've always found the dichotomy of using performance enhancing drugs between the climbing/hiking community and other sports a little odd. For example, here's a recent link of the WPSMB concerning precription drug Diamox (acetazolamide):

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum ... #Post65863

Whether a pro climber or a 'weekend warrior' (most who post on the WPSMB are in the latter category) it seems odd how its not condemned as it is in other sports, and that anyone who uses it can say they've been to the summit of Mt. Whitney without and recriminations.

Are Bolt, Armstorng, Bonds, MacGuire, pro (or college) football players, runners, swimmers, etc guilty of using PEDs? Who knows for sure, but it seems anyone who dominates a sport these days will immediately be under a cloud of suspicion that won't end.

makes no difference to me. high profile athlete or bozo the clown. I lose respect for anybody who uses anything like that. It's a HUGE tell.

[Zé]

these things (hell, all things) are never black and white issues, as much as Fight On and others would like to believe.

I tend to assume that athletes are doing whatever they can to win...and with that most are using the most advanced technology in similar fashions...for instance I presume Lance Armstrong has taken PED's but also that so is most everyone else at his level. If that is true, then he still is 'better' than them in the relative sense.

Same with Barry Bonds. he took PED's...and well so did most of rest of the MLB. He still performed better, relatively. (we can agree that perhaps the absolute 73 HR was a bit much, but it was still more than others who were also taking PEDs)

players are like companies trying to make a profit...they are going to do all things they can to make a profit. you should assume so, and then blame the regulatory government for not doing its job.

where do you draw the black & white line? 'normal' foods have effects on performance. so does water. those are natural, but so are items with caffeine. where do you draw the line?

everyone is using technological advances. shoes, hiking poles in hiking. hell 'old timers' complain about gps as an unreasonable crutch, but at one time a map and compass were also a big technological advance. so where do you draw the line?

[FIGHT ON]

these things (hell, all things) are never black and white issues, as much as Fight On and others would like to believe.

I tend to assume that athletes are doing whatever they can to win...and with that most are using the most advanced technology in similar fashions...for instance I presume Lance Armstrong has taken PED's but also that so is most everyone else at his level. If that is true, then he still is 'better' than them in the relative sense.

Same with Barry Bonds. he took PED's...and well so did most of rest of the MLB. He still performed better, relatively. (we can agree that perhaps the absolute 73 HR was a bit much, but it was still more than others who were also taking PEDs)

players are like companies trying to make a profit...they are going to do all things they can to make a profit. you should assume so, and then blame the regulatory government for not doing its job.

where do you draw the black & white line? 'normal' foods have effects on performance. so does water. those are natural, but so are items with caffeine. where do you draw the line?

everyone is using technological advances. shoes, hiking poles in hiking. hell 'old timers' complain about gps as an unreasonable crutch, but at one time a map and compass were also a big technological advance. so where do you draw the line?

caffeine makes your heart beat faster. and when taken to enhance performance, it's cheating. I draw the line at cheating. doesn't matter how many people do it, it's still cheating.

[AlanK]

caffeine makes your heart beat faster. and when taken to enhance performance, it's cheating. I draw the line at cheating. doesn't matter how many people do it, it's still cheating.

Wow! Who knew you felt that way? Thanks for cluing us in!

[Zé]

<smacks forehead>

what do you define as cheating? what things? how do you differentiate between foods?

[FIGHT ON]

<smacks forehead>

what do you define as cheating? what things? how do you differentiate between foods?

cheating is taking stimulants to enhance performance.
caffeine is one. What stimulants do you take to enhance your performance?
Does caffeine have any nutritional value?

[AlanK]

<smacks forehead>
what do you define as cheating? what things? how do you differentiate between foods?

cheating is taking stimulants to enhance performance.
caffeine is one. What stimulants do you take to enhance your performance?
Does caffeine have any nutritional value?

Cheating is violating rules. There are rules in sports so there is cheating. Finding the "rules of hiking" is problematic because there is no governing body for the sport of hiking. There is certainly no governing body that has made caffeine illegal. In fact, caffeine is legal in Olympic sports. You can pontificate all you want about your personal rules, but there are no consequences for not following them. Except for endless, repetitive Internet message board threads.

[physicslord]

I drank a starbucks double shot and then cut a switchback today in your honor FO!

catch me if you can.

[AlanK]

I drank a starbucks double shot and then cut a switchback today in your honor FO!

And Mr. Dillinger ain't talkin' decaf either!

[FIGHT ON]

<smacks forehead>
what do you define as cheating? what things? how do you differentiate between foods?

cheating is taking stimulants to enhance performance.
caffeine is one. What stimulants do you take to enhance your performance?
Does caffeine have any nutritional value?

Cheating is violating rules. There are rules in sports so there is cheating. Finding the "rules of hiking" is problematic because there is no governing body for the sport of hiking. There is certainly no governing body that has made caffeine illegal. In fact, caffeine is legal in Olympic sports. You can pontificate all you want about your personal rules, but there are no consequences for not following them. Except for endless, repetitive Internet message board threads.

naw, taking drugs to enhance performance is cheating. 100%. doesn't matter who says it isn't. I ain't gonna suck into the "Well caffeine is legal in the olympics, therefore it's not cheating" Not me! no way. You can take all the drugs you want to do what ever you do.

I will NEVER take a drug to enhance my performance. Ever!
you could offer me a trillion dollars do to it. and I would turn it down.
That's right! I would not drink a cup of coffee before a hike for a trillion dollars.

something tells me you would, for vanity!