Feedback on PSMP Aid Boxes

[ntheno]

The PSMP would like to get feedback from experienced Skyline hikers rega"rding the possibility of placing aid stations with water, supplies etc. Keeping in mind that city limits end at @5500ft, best locations?, suggestions for contents, any volunteers for reporting on inventory? Many hurdles remain for the city to officially make this happen, but the PSMP would like to enlist the help of the most experienced and best prepared "Skyliners."Thanks in advance.

[phydeux]

Disclaimer: I've never done Skyline myself, but I have done other serious hiking/climbing routes in both cold/icey and hot/dry conditions.

I'd say no to aid boxes of any type. It just sets up at "attractive nuisance" for the City/County, and would probably lure folks who are not in shape to deal with the terrain and weather to attempt Skyline if they knew those aid stations were available. And not only would you have to deal with summertime hikers who ignore the desert heat, but wintertime travelers who do not realize there can be snow and ice at the top of the route quite some distance before reaching Long Valley.

Best suggestions:

1) Put multiple warning signs at successive locations along the route, possibly every 500 ft of elevation gain for the first 2000-2500 ft. Maybe after hiking up to that elevation folks would finally come to the realization that they're not prepared for the ordeal and wisely turn around. Might also add a notation that the PS Tramway can get you up to Long Valley safely for $25 (what a bargin!), and they can expend the energy to hike to the top of San J to enjoy its great view!.

2) How about a big, sturdy fence running a mile (or two?) in each direction from the trailhead at the museum, with a gate that can be opened during optimal hiking times (fall & spring). That way you allow access for folks wishing to make reasonable attempts, while limiting the need to expend public resources during the hottest days of summer and cool, icey, snowy days of mid-winter. Also makes folks plan appropriately so they don't a make last-minute, spur-of-the-moment, "gotta-do-it!" decision to attempt Skyline just because they are visiting the Palm Springs area.

My 2 cents . . . .

[tinaballina]

My two Cents on this:

2) How about a big, sturdy fence running a mile (or two?) in each direction from the trailhead at the museum, with a gate that can be opened during optimal hiking times (fall & spring). That way you allow access for folks wishing to make reasonable attempts, while limiting the need to expend public resources during the hottest days of summer and cool, icey, snowy days of mid-winter. Also makes folks plan appropriately so they don't a make last-minute, spur-of-the-moment, "gotta-do-it!" decision to attempt Skyline just because they are visiting the Palm Springs area.

This would ruin it for the people that do skyline responsibly; some of us are conditioned differently and should not be penalized for it. Yes, the people that attempt skyline irresponsibly have ruined it for those of us that know it, love it and have a respect for the trail.

Do i think there should be more signs??-possibly but you can't control people that ignore what is in front of them, ignorance will always be a problem, its unfortunate that it comes with such a high risk.
I don't really have an answer but i don't think fencing it off is the right way to go.

I have to commend PSMP for attempting to help.

[lightgy]

I live in Palm Springs. Often on the lower sections I run into people new to the trail that are confused as to where they are headed. Most of the confusion seems to be in the area where the Noth Lyken, Museum, and Skyline Trails cross. I wonder if exhausted hikers attempting to hike down Skyline get confused at this junction. Maybe a sign with a map detailing the three trails and the correct direction to the museum and Ramon Road would prevent someone wandering off the trail.

Several lockable boxes could placed off trail out of view of the general public. A numbered sign could be posted on the trail in the area of the box with a emergency number. When a call comes in the nature of the emergency can be assessed. If the caller needs emergency supplies he could be directed to the box and provided with the combination to the lock.. The location of the caller would be pin pointed from the number on the sign and help could be sent.

These are just some "thoughts" I don't know if there are any perfect solutions.

[Perry]

I can help stock it if this happens.

My opinion is that higher is better because at that point people are either committed to finishing in the summer, or contemplating turning around in the winter. Lower would encourage people to keep going up.

I would put a sign that says "Emergency Food and Water" with an arrow pointing away from the path, uphill, and requires some bushwhacking to reach the supplies (yuccas and other plants that aren't fun to walk through). That way the supplies would likely be used by people who actually need them. Water and pretzels are a good survival combination. Unpopular foods are less likely to get stolen: sardines, lima beans, black licorice, salt & vinegar potato chips.

I think having elevations signs every 500 feet and mile markers would be effective because people would realize that the top of that desert peak is not even close to the tram. It's very deceptive for first-timers because it looks so tall from Palm Springs, and from the top of that peak, the tram looks so close. I think some people would turn around at a 2,500 foot sign.

I've considered taking an old ice axe and some old crampons, putting them in a clear plastic bag and hanging them high in a tree. Any donations?

[lightgy]

perry says,

"Water and pretzels are a good survival combination. Unpopular foods are less likely to get stolen: sardines, lima beans, black licorice, salt & vinegar potato chips. "

I can vouch for that. I've survived on pretzels and beer for 30 years now. The only thing i lovebetter than "sardines, lima beans, black licorice, salt & vinegar potato chips. " is sardines, lima beans, red licorice, salt & vinegar potato chips. But seriously, I'll help stock

[Marknhj]

I can help stock too. I think areas to consider would be around 3800', where it levels off and you get your first clear view of the Tram Station (looking a lot closer than it is), at the 5000' marker, and another before Flat Rock (Florian's spot is a good one).

I just went up to the warning sign and someone's attached a warning to the warning. It's simple and effective, in my opinion. It details the two deaths in May and July and warns of the dangers of going back down into the heat if you're in trouble. I know if I was heading up there for the first time and saw it, I'd think twice about going any further. But I'm not much of a risk taker...

[asabat]

When they put the water and food up there, if it's not there when I get there (and I WILL be relying on it being there), who will be responsible for delivering me more supplies?

(Just kidding... but I think more than a few will have this attitude.)

And NO to the fence. Personal responsibility, folks. I may be prepared for a winter ascent. Someone else might be in danger from a spring time shower. Or a spring time surprise blizzard.

Maybe if we quit talking about our extreme adventures on this trail in the "bad" seasons, and talk up how we'd never do it then, fewer would try it then.

More signs. Include photos of bloated corpses, strong young folk puking their guts out, and buzzards feasting on eyeballs. Maybe that will get the point across.

[halhiker]

I think water is the key thing needed. The two known Skyline deaths were both low on the mountain. I would imagine they were both due to heat and dehydration. In addition to water, I would suggest some of those chemical ice packs. If a person is overheated, they could pop one of those open and put it on their neck to cool down. Also a tarp or something to create shade might be good.

I don't think there's any need for food. Eating uses moisture that can go to better use.

As for location, I don't think it needs to be that high on the mountain. Probably above the Lykken junction to avoid vandalism but not much higher. It should have some information on surviving the heat. It should be in an area where cell phone reception is good and the coordinates are known. That would make it easier if a rescue is necessary.

I wouldn't mind lugging stuff up on occasion.

[asabat]

I don't suppose there's any seeps nearby that could be developed into a reliable water source? Or maybe raise the funds to drill a well?