Skyline vs Marathon - Time comparison

[zippetydude]

Hey, this is one of my favorite topics! Here's my experience: I'm not real fast like Alan or Perry, so it may not be comparable, but my best L A Marathon time was 3:40 and my best Skyline time about a year and a half later was 3:37.

So, my experience is that they're very close in difficulty.

If push comes to shove, I'd say Skyline was a little easier, especially now that I know more shortcuts! There's a major difference: I always have difficulty when I take shortcuts in marathons. These people with "Race Organizer" shirts keep running in front of me saying, "Go back!"

z

[AlanK]

If push comes to shove, I'd say Skyline was a little easier, especially now that I know more shortcuts! There's a major difference: I always have difficulty when I take shortcuts in marathons. These people with "Race Organizer" shirts keep running in front of me saying, "Go back!"

On the other hand, the Mission Bay Marathon has been held since the late 1960s and no one has ever encountered a rattlesnake during the race. Kinda spoils you.

In the interest of full disclosure, I never ran Mission Bay. But I did run Palos Verdes and Culver City in 1969. I ran much of Culver City with my dad. Trying to be a better parent, my proudest accomplishment is talking my son out of running a marathon until he's at least old enough to know better.

[zippetydude]

On the other hand, I bet Eric could do a blazing Skyline time with no ill effects! Has he considered going for speed on Skyline just for fun?

z

[FIGHT ON]

Hey, this is one of my favorite topics! Here's my experience: I'm not real fast like Alan or Perry, so it may not be comparable, but my best L A Marathon time was 3:40 and my best Skyline time about a year and a half later was 3:37.
z

I know how to reduce 37 minutes off your time!
I'm gonna place 37 motion detectors evenly along skyline.
Each will trigger a rattlesnake speaker that will sound off right after you pass it.

Don't know about you but every time I hear that rattle, adrenaline pours!

[Marknhj]

zip - didn't you tell me that Ryan Hall had run up San G? If so, what was his time?

(For those who may not follow track or road racing - Hall is the current top US marathon runner, 10th in Beijing and has a pr of 2:06:17. Brought up in Big Bear)

[AlanK]

zip - didn't you tell me that Ryan Hall had run up San G? If so, what was his time?

(For those who may not follow track or road racing - Hall is the current top US marathon runner, 10th in Beijing and has a pr of 2:06:17. Brought up in Big Bear)

Rick Graham said on Summitpost about a year ago that Ryan Hall had run up Vivian Creek in 1:44. I certainly find that believable.

Skyline takes significantly longer than Vivian Creek -- in my case, about 33% longer.

Hall has run a 2:06:17 marathon. If he takes 33% longer on Skyline than Vivian Creek, he'd do 2:48. A lot longer than that marathon.

Of course, not everyone will endorse my Vivian Creek : Skyline ratio.

[AlanK]

On the other hand, I bet Eric could do a blazing Skyline time with no ill effects! Has he considered going for speed on Skyline just for fun?

He just needs a little goading.

[AlanK]

I've been wondering what going up Skyline is equivalent to in flat running by comparison of time / energy expenditure.

Here's an estimate of energy expenditure for a 70 kg person: Calories burned = [95 Cal * distance in miles] + [0.15 * elevation gain in feet]

Skyline: 11 miles and 8000' gained ==> 2250 Cal

Marathon: 26.2 miles on the flat ==> 2490 Cal

[Perry]

Great questions. Difficult to answer. I think Skyline is equal to or longer than a flat marathon time, depending on a person's running economy and training specificity.

In late September 2002 I made it to the top of the cement walkway in 2:48:44 and Grubb's Notch in just a couple seconds under 2:45. (The "top" of Skyline is kind of vague.) It was a perfect day, and that would be hard for me to beat. The final climb from flatrock up I was breathing heavily and I think I could feel my heartbeat on the upper section. The trail today has new shortcuts in the desert and detours around fallen trees higher up. In 2002 it was less confusing.

In 2000 I finished the Portland Marathon in 2:47:20 but that was a really bad race. I got muscle cramps and was limping across the finish line. This was before I realized that I lose salt faster than most people. Even before I had slowed down, my breathing was relaxed. I think it's safe to say I can run a marathon a lot faster than Skyline, but I believe this is strongly related to running economy. For other Portland Marathons, I did not do the training that I did in 2000.

My best time on Vivian is just barely under 2 hours, but I think I can cut some more time off that... Realistically, I am not expecting to break Ryan Hall's 1:44. That may be beyond my ability. If Ryan did Skyline, I think he would easily break my record. I don't think he would do it in 2:06 though.

I've never been in the best shape when I've done Baldy. In 2007, my last-minute training for Baldy really paid off in the Tram Road race.

Best tram road is 30:25 in 2007. Comparing Skyline and Tram Road times will depend on whether a person's lactate threshold is a high percentage of their VO2 max.

[KathyW]

This is a very interesting topic. I like the time comparison of Skyline to Vivian. My fastest Skyline took me about 30 percent longer than my fastest Vivian, so even for a slower person like me the percentage is close.