Come on Tom!

[FIGHT ON]

So I've never been on that Manker Flat Trail except twice going down from the top of Baldy right?
And all this rig a ma roll of people going up and down like a yo yo makes me check it out right?
So I look up on google and want to see how far it is and where the mileage starts ok?
And every place I look it's got a different start and miles! you with me?
So then I come across this Mr. Dans hiking page and he pretty much sums up what I found.
Lists the different sources and how different their findings are.
Included is Tom Harrison which I have been swearing by.
But his is very different then the others.
hmmm.
some body is really wrong here.
How could so many people be so far off so I write tom harrison.

ok?

Tom:

On your map the mileage differs from a few other sources.
Some speculate that you made a mistake and that it's 4 miles from the gate at Manker.
I trust your measuring method and want to know the truth.

I found this note on Dan's Hiking Page...

http://66.39.73.65/hiking/baldy1.html

Mileage - There is some discrepancy as to the mileage via the Ski Hut Trail.
Manker Flats to Mt. Baldy via the Ski Hut Trail, one way:
Sierra Club - 4.0 miles, 3900' gain
Jerry Schad - 4.2 miles, 3900' gain
John McKinney - 4.25 miles, 3800' gain
John Robinson - 4.5 miles, 3800' gain
USF Service - 4.6 miles, 3904' gain
Harrison map - 5.1 miles, 3904' gain
The Harrison map shows 0.9 from Manker to the junction, and 4.2 from the junction to the summit (total 5.1). So perhaps the 4.2 is actually its bid for the total distance.
A USFS information sheet distributed by the Mt. Baldy Visitor's Center shows the distance from the trailhead to the Ski Hut Trail junction as 0.9 mile (same as the Harrison map). It shows the distance to the ski hut at 2.5 miles, and from the ski hut to the summit at 2.1 miles (total 4.6). I suspect that their 2.1 distance is overstated by 0.4 mile. Thus a more probable distance from the ski hut to the summit is 1.7 miles (0.7 from the ski hut to the ridge and another 1.0 to the summit). This total one-way distance of 4.2 is what my hike description is based on.

Tom:

Did you personally measure the Ski Hut Trail with your wheel? Or are you relying on another source?
Please clarify if the 4.2 is correct and if that measurement was started at the junction, register, or the gate at Manker Flats.

Thanks Tom.

so he writes back!

Hi FIGHT. Thanks for your note. As it turns out I am in the process of updating the Mt Baldy map so this came at a good time. My mileages were taken from Forest Service measurements made many years ago. That's the good news. The bad news is that I misread the mileage chart! I wish I could say that this is my first and last mistake but alas, that is not the case. The total mileage is 4.2 miles, and the 4.2 number should read 3.3.
The strange thing is that several thousand of the Mt Baldy maps are out there and you are the first person to bring this to my attention. I will make the changes on my update, and double-check all the other mileages.
Thanks again for letting me know about this.

Tom Harrison
tomharrisonmaps@comcast.net

wow.

[AlanK]

Tom's 0.9 is about right for the portion of the hike that's on the fire road. I always assumed that the 4.2 included it because that is the distance from the start of the fire road to the top. In any case, it's a minor mistake. I mean, you can eyeball the trail and compare to others nearby and see it is not 4.2 to the top from the start of the Baldy Bowl Trail.

Anyway, as in other cases, hike it and find out.

[hvydrt]

Its 23,316.48 feet.

[FIGHT ON]

Tom's 0.9 is about right for the portion of the hike that's on the fire road. I always assumed that the 4.2 included it because that is the distance from the start of the fire road to the top. In any case, it's a minor mistake. I mean, you can eyeball the trail and compare to others nearby and see it is not 4.2 to the top from the start of the Baldy Bowl Trail.

Anyway, as in other cases, hike it and find out.

Sierra Club - 4.0 miles, 3900' gain
Jerry Schad - 4.2 miles, 3900' gain
John McKinney - 4.25 miles, 3800' gain
John Robinson - 4.5 miles, 3800' gain
USF Service - 4.6 miles, 3904' gain
Harrison map - 5.1 miles, 3904' gain

The differences between these claims are huge. Even in the elevations there is over 100 feet difference, and all of them are all less than 4,000 feet.

Even if the harrison number is removed there is still 3,168 feet between sierra club and the usf. over a thousand yards! that's funny!

What he ought to do is color code his mileages to note which trails were personally measured by him and taken from other sources. And he should name those other sources as well.

Anyway, as in other cases, to really find out, one would have to measure it, with a wheel.

[FIGHT ON]

Its 23,316.48 feet.

4.416 miles! write a trail book or make a map and join the party!

[bluerail]

In any case, it would take someone like Clark Kents little brother to do it 5 times in one day.

[FIGHT ON]

In any case, it would take someone like Clark Kents little brother to do it 5 times in one day.

Juan Valdez's little brother could do 6!

[AlanK]

Sierra Club - 4.0 miles, 3900' gain
Jerry Schad - 4.2 miles, 3900' gain
John McKinney - 4.25 miles, 3800' gain
John Robinson - 4.5 miles, 3800' gain
USF Service - 4.6 miles, 3904' gain
Harrison map - 5.1 miles, 3904' gain

The differences between these claims are huge. Even in the elevations there is over 100 feet difference, and all of them are all less than 4,000 feet.

Even if the harrison number is removed there is still 3,168 feet between sierra club and the usf. over a thousand yards! that's funny!

Most people realize that trail mileages are approximate, especially old ones. One takes them with a grain of salt.

Throwing out Harrison's, which is a simple mistake that would be hard to miss, the list you show says the distance is 4.3 miles +/-10%. That's fairly typical the accuracy of short trail measurements. Some people list distances estimated from USGS maps, some have used pedometers (which are notoriously inaccurate, especially on mountain trials), etc. Sometimes there is more than one trail or the trial changes over time (with people continuing to use old measurements), etc.

As I said, one learns to take these measurements with a grain of salt.

The elevation change numbers average 3860 +/-1%. Again, typical. One can look at the USGS map and see that the net elevation change is around 3900'.

[Hikin_Jim]

In any case, it would take someone like Clark Kents little brother to do it 5 times in one day.

Uh, I believe you mean Rick Kent's little brother.

[zippetydude]

I believe that was meant as an allusion to a familial resemblance to Superman. No?