Old Cahuilla Trails no longer on the maps

[msugarpants]

hey there folks....I am new to the forums here. Lately, i have developed a fascination with trying to explore areas that have trails....but those trails are not on the maps. Dont get me wrong, the trails that are on the maps are wonderful (many i still have not visited)....often more wonderful than those hidden ones, but there is a certain charm in coming across a random cairn....a faint trail that has seen little traffic in the last 100 years...and a few scant potsherds. So far, I have only found a few. found one alternative bear creek oasis trail down to coyote pass in la quinta, (still have lots of coyote pass exploring to do...without entering deep canyon...of course!)...and two trails along small mesas in martinez canyon. Most recently i hiked an old trail from rockhouse valley up and over a saddle.....not the one that goes to alta seca bench (that is next.)
I will also have a trail description and link to photos from our trip across the santa rosas as soon as possible.

anyone have any OLD topo maps? where can i find 1904 Indio Special Map? (no local place has one. maybe L.A. or san diego library might. looking for something closer.


Lookin for some good ideas and like minded people to explore with. I enjoyed reading so many of the posts already.

mike

[Rick M]

One place to look for old topo maps are university libraries (especially if they have a geology department. I've seen many "old" topos from the late 1800s their though you will only be able to make photocopies of them.

[some guy]

Yeah, what Rick M said -- you're best to go visit a University library. Although I have run across some old topos online also. For example here's the San Jacinto 1901 (1929 reprint):

http://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/v ... 143a_k.jpg

Unfortunately the resolution is just low enough that it's hard to make out some of the details.

[simonov]

Unfortunately the resolution is just low enough that it's hard to make out some of the details.

You're telling me. I can't even find the tram on that map.

[msugarpants]

I did find the 1904 Indio Special map on a university website. It does show a bunch of trails going from Rockhouse Valley across the santa rosas, connecting to Martinez cactus springs trail. As I hiked this route, we did not follow the map, but found still other trails not listed. If anyone needs this map, message me with your email address and i will send it to you. it is about four megs.

[msugarpants]

hey some guy,
that is a nice find. I think that the map i have is from Berk. Uni. also. I will see if it can be downloaded and enlarged even more.

[Andy]

I was trying to track down some old Topo maps last year as well.

Here's a correspondence I received from the USGS. Hope this helps.


"The earliest maps produced by the USGS were published in quadrangle form at
the scale of 1:250,000 for 1-degree maps and 1:125,000-scale for 30-minute
maps. Gradually, the scale of mapping was increased to 1:62,500 to meet
the demands for a more detailed map. The scale of 1:62,500 continued as
the prevailing scale until the 1950's, when the continuing requirement for
more detail resulted in a shift to the standard scale of 1:24,000. With
the completion of the 1:24,000-scale series in the early 1990's, the
1:62,500-scale (or 15-minute) maps were abandoned as a current map product.
The 15-minute maps are now only available as an out-of-print map product.

The USGS has been producing maps since the 1880's, but only certain areas
of the country have map coverages that date back that far. Information on
dates of publication, survey, aerial photograph source, and revision, as
well as microfilm storage roll and frame data, is stored in a database
maintained by the USGS. This database can generate a report indicating the
extent of historical map coverage for any given area.

The USGS has out-of-print maps available as black-and-white xerox copies.
The cost for a reproduction is $12 per copy, and a $5 handling fee is
applied to each order. Payment must be received at the time the order is
placed and may be made with a check or money order (payable to "DOI-USGS"),
or with Visa, MasterCard, American Express, or Discover credit cards.

Additional information on the availability of historical maps may be found
by contacting the following offices:

The Geography and Map Division
Library of Congress
James Madison Memorial Building
101 Independence Ave., SE.
Washington, DC 20540

Phone: 202-707-6277


National Archives and Records Administration
Cartographic and Architectural Branch (NNSC)
8601 Adelphi Road
College Park, MD 20740-6001

Phone: 301-837-3200



If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Bob Kimmel
USGS
Information Services
507 National Center
Reston, VA 20192
703-648-5934
rakimmel@usgs.gov

[Hikin_Jim]

I cut my teeth on the 1:62,500's. I remember doing a lot of XC up in the Sierra with dad with just a 1:62,500. Looking back, I'm not sure how we pulled that off (with so little detail), although I do remember having to hoist backpacks up with a rope when we'd come to an obstacle that we hadn't anticipated.

We don't realize how spoiled we are with 1:24,000's (although we do have to carry four 1:24,000 map sheets, each larger than a 1:62:500, to cover the same area as one 1:62,500 sheet).

I've got all my dad's old maps. Maybe for grins, I'll have to pull out his old 1:62,500 for the SJ's. A 1:62,500 is a 15' map, IIRC. I've also got a DMA (Defense Mapping Agency) military 1:50,000 15' map of the SJ's. Same coverage area as a 1:62,500, but on a larger sheet. I can't remember the specific contour interval for my military San Jacinto quad, but often it's 40m (approx 131 feet) on a military map, which is a very poor choice for a contour interval IMHO. With an interval that large, you lose a lot of detail. By contrast, the standard interval for the old 1:62,500's was 80' (at least in California) and for the current day 1:24,000's, it's tyically 40'. An interval of 40m is more than three times an interval of 40'.