San G. with young children, how to shorten summit day?

[Norris]

I've been trying to figure out how to get my 10 year-old son and some of his friends and their Dads to the summit of San G. without making it too strenous for them on summit day. Both Vivian Creek High Camp to summit and back and Dry Lake to summit and back would be too long, I think. What other options are there? I realize its possible to camp other places, like Trail flat, or to find one's own campsite somewhere above High Creek, but this means packing water up from High Creek, or hiking down to Lodgepole spring if coming up from the other side. Any suggestions as to best option? I'm currently thinking Fish Creek trail (although I've never done it personally) for several reasons: 1) higher trailhead elevation than South Fork or Vivian, with a good camp and plenty of water a relatively short hike in 2) probably easier to get a permit than the other two 3) not a very long hike to reach Fish Creek Saddle, which I assume has some areas suitable for camping. After setting up camp, some of the Dads would have to hike down to Lodgepole spring for water and carry it back up. Anyone familiar with Fish Creek Saddle? Is this a feasible plan? Got a better suggestion?

[Norris]

I noticed on this web site http://www.howlingduck.com/cgi-local/display_water_data.pl about San G. water sources that "Mineshaft Flat: Water is .3 mi down trail". Is this anywhere near Mineshaft saddle, or the camping area the rangers call trail flat(s) which is on the way from Dry lake to Mineshaft saddle? The latter area is reputed to have no water at all. I can't find a reference to Mineshaft flat in Robinson's San Bernardino Mountain trails book ...

[AlanK]

The first time I took my son up San G he was 9. We camped near Dollar Lake Saddle and got water at High Meadow Springs.

[Hikin_Jim]

Norris:

Just so you know, all camping in the San Gorgonio Wilderness is by permit only at designated camp sites. Trail Flats, High Creek, and Fish Creek Saddle are the highest trail camps en route to the summit. Camping above that is off limits, unless you want to camp on the summit itself, which is permitted. Camping is not permitted at Mineshaft Saddle.

Fish Creek is the easist (in my opinion) route to the top. If you could take a three day weekend, you could do something like this:
Day 1: Fish Creek Trailhead to Fish Creek Saddle.
Day 2: Fish Creek Saddle to summit and return to Fish Creek Saddle.
Day 3: Fish Creek Saddle to Fish Creek Trailhead

If you only have a regular, two day weekend, you'd have to go all the way back to the trailhead on day 2 which would make for a hard day.

For Fish Creek Saddle, there is water available at Lodgepole. There is also water available this time of year at the last creek crossing before the big switchbacks that go up to Fish Creek Saddle. See point "C" on the map link below. You can either go up to the saddle and set up camp and then hike down to Lodgepole for water or fill up at the aforementioned creek crossing and carry it up, depending on your preference.

There is water at Mineshaft Flat trailcamp. Mineshaft Flat is a couple of miles down a side trail from Mineshaft Saddle, and the water source is another third of a mile down the side trail from that. You'd have over a five mile side trip to get water at Mineshaft Flat. I don't think it would be worth it.

There is a reasonable short cut you can take to the top. Take a look at this topgraphic map of the area. You'll probably want to scroll around a bit and zoom in and out.
A = The Fish Creek Trailhead.
B = A creek crossing with highly reliable water
C = The last creek crossing before the switch backs. Fill up here.
D = Fish Creek Saddle
E = Lodgepole Springs (Alternative fill up point)
F = Mineshaft Saddle (no camping)
G = the top of the switchbacks on the Sky High Trail
H = The major SE ridge of San Gorgonio Mtn
I = The summit of San Gorgonio Mtn

The short cut is basically this: When you get to the top of the switchbacks on the Sky High Trail and start to cross the major SE ridge of San Gorgonio Mtn, turn right and follow the steep but doable ridge from point "G" to point "H" to point "I" (the summit). It is cross country (no trail), but you can see worn spots that indicate that others have done it. It's fairly simple navigation; just stay on the top of the ridge and keep going uphill. If you start going down hill, you're off route. This will cut out at least a mile, maybe more, from your round trip from Fish Creek Saddle and back. The ridge is defiitely harder than the trail. You'd have to decide based on your knowledge of the parties involved whether a shorter more difficult route (but doable) is better than an easier, longer route.

Hope that helps,

HJ

[phydeux]

High Creek is only 3.5 - 4.0 miles to the summit, anyone in reasonable shape should be able to get from there to the summit and back in one day. Simply start early in the AM, take your time, and you should be able to make it. Should be plenty of water at High Creek. If you have time, have everyone get on a workout program (even walking around the block on a regular basis) to make it easier.

Another option is to stay at the summit for a night. I was up there this weekend, really nice weather. Springtime is usually a little breezy in the afternoon ('onshore flow'), but the breeze dies down as evening approaches, then you have fantastic night time views of the Coachella Valley, Banning/Beaumont area, eastward into the desert, and that view of the night sky with its gazillion stars. Do it this time of year so there will be some snow to melt for water.

[Norris]

Hikin Jim, AlanK, thanks to both you. Especially Hikin Jim for the awesome amount of info! Jim, the shortcut looks to me as if it will save between 2 and 2.5 miles total. Would it still be considered class 2, or does it require use of hands for climbing? Would you turn 10 year old boys loose on it, or want them protected in some way? Alan, did you use the South Fork trailhead to access Dollar Saddle?

[KathyW]

Dry Lake View at 10,500' is a nice campsite between Dollar Lake and the summit. It's a dry campsite, but it's not that bad hauling water from South Fork Meadows at 8200' (good training weight for the adults). If you go in the summer this year, there's a good chance there will be no water available at Dry or Dollar Lakes. I heard that Lodgepole Springs was just a trickle last week.

[Norris]

High Creek is only 3.5 - 4.0 miles to the summit, anyone in reasonable shape should be able to get from there to the summit and back in one day. Simply start early in the AM, take your time, and you should be able to make it. Should be plenty of water at High Creek. If you have time, have everyone get on a workout program (even walking around the block on a regular basis) to make it easier.

Hi phydeux, One of the boys is only 7, and I'm just trying to make sure he has a good time instead of whining and wanting to turn the group around. 8 miles seemed a bit much for a 7 year-old to me.
Unfortunately, even with Hikin Jim's shortcut, its just about as far from Fish Creek Saddle to the summit as from High Creek Camp! But significantly, there is less elevation gain on summit day, about 600 ft or so. The total elevation gain on Fish Creek is quite a bit less due to the higher elevation of the trailhead. Assuming 2 camps on the way up, with the Fish Creek approach we would have only about 400 ft of elevation gain the first afternoon over 2.2 miles to Fish Creek trail camp, versus 1,000 ft of elevation gain from Vivian Creek trailhead to Vivian Creek camp over 1.2 miles. The second day would be easier too. On Vivian creek, they would have to climb 2,000 ft from Vivian Creek camp to High Creek camp over 4 miles. On Fish Creek, its only 2.2 more miles from Fish Creek Trail camp to Fish Creek Saddle.

[Hikin_Jim]

Hikin Jim, AlanK, thanks to both you. Especially Hikin Jim for the awesome amount of info! Jim, the shortcut looks to me as if it will save between 2 and 2.5 miles total. Would it still be considered class 2, or does it require use of hands for climbing? Would you turn 10 year old boys loose on it, or want them protected in some way? Alan, did you use the South Fork trailhead to access Dollar Saddle?

You're welcome of course.

I have in the past calculated the amount that you save with the shortcut, and I think 2 to 2.5 miles sounds about right.

The shortcut is no more than class 2. There will be spots where the boys will need to use their hands for balance, but there's no use of the hands for climbing (i.e. class 3 and above). I think it would be fine for 10 y.o. boys. It's a rocky, steep ridge, but it's plenty wide. It's not like you'd have any dangerous drop offs to the side or something like that provided that you stay on the ridge. I can't conceive of using protection (i.e. ropes, harnesses, etc.). It really is a very doable route. Take a look at the topo map of the ridge. The ridge is far less steep than what you will come up as you climb the Sky High Trail. By the way, when I say steep, it's hiking steep not climbing steep. A lot of the experienced XC travellers on this board would probably think it was pretty tame in terms of steepness.

[Norris]

Super, thanks!