Hiker Lost Near The Tram

[AlanK]

Maybe it's time to get back to basics.

[halhiker]

Maybe it's time to get back to basics.

LOL! Or we could make it bilingual:

LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTANTE

[magikwalt]

I was up on the skyline Sunday at about 5200' when I turned back. I haven't read any details on who was rescued. I did run into 3 guys who had planned on tagging the tram but one of them pooped out early. I tried to talk them out of it cause only one had crampons and neither had an ax. Just curious if it was the same two guys. One of them was named Sean and said he had gone to the tram twice before but followed a more experienced hiker. Waiting for more details.

No sign could have warned them better than Dave did. Putting warning labels on packs of smokes hasn't stopped people from smoking and neither will another sign on the trail. As far as they were concerned they were prepared. If you want to slow the stream of dummies then hold the rescue off until the next morning after SAR has had breakfast and coffee.

As for some agency closing the trail what will that do? The north face is "closed" but that doesn't stop people from going. Drive out to I-10 and Gene Autry Trail. Look at Mt. San Jacinto and tell me that C2C is the only route up to the tram station. C2C is just easier for the sheep to follow

[FIGHT ON]

I was up on the skyline Sunday at about 5200' when I turned back. I haven't read any details on who was rescued. I did run into 3 guys who had planned on tagging the tram but one of them pooped out early. I tried to talk them out of it cause only one had crampons and neither had an ax. Just curious if it was the same two guys. One of them was named Sean and said he had gone to the tram twice before but followed a more experienced hiker. Waiting for more details.

No sign could have warned them better than Dave did. Putting warning labels on packs of smokes hasn't stopped people from smoking and neither will another sign on the trail. As far as they were concerned they were prepared. If you want to slow the stream of dummies then hold the rescue off until the next morning after SAR has had breakfast and coffee.

As for some agency closing the trail what will that do? The north face is "closed" but that doesn't stop people from going. Drive out to I-10 and Gene Autry Trail. Look at Mt. San Jacinto and tell me that C2C is the only route up to the tram station. C2C is just easier for the sheep to follow

Yep! In fact, to my amazement some react the exact opposite of warning signs. My favorite line is "I DON'T NEED ANYONE TO PROTECT ME FROM MYSELF!"

[AlanK]

Putting warning labels on packs of smokes hasn't stopped people from smoking and neither will another sign on the trail.

In 2008, the smoking rate in the US was the lowest it has ever been. Smoking has been going down since... well, since about the time they started putting warning labels on cigarette packs. The labels are not the only cause, of course, but it does not seem fair to pretend they have had no effect just because there are still smokers.

[drndr]

This is strictly the cynic in me, but I agree with magikwalt. Only a step further. Let personal responsibility take full effect. Just rescue every other group that gets into trouble. Maybe a few more deaths will weed out the stupid. Rescuing every other one will still give RMRU plenty of business. Of course, this is just the evil side of me speaking and we could never do this.



Many outdoor enthusiats look at signs as just another challenge. There will still be rescues.

D.

[jspeigl]

I got one quote for the following:

2' x 3', aluminum, laminated coating, $231.75

They could put multiple colors and photographs on the sign for that price. The aluminum is the sturdiest they have and the laminated coating would extend the life of the sign. We would also need a pipe to mount it to and other hardware. I think we would also need a few bags of ready-mix. How hard is the ground where this sign will go? I suppose home depot has everything but the sign.

I've never seen the existing sign, so I might be missing something obvious, so any other suggestions (constructive only, please) are welcome.

[AlanK]

Many outdoor enthusiats look at signs as just another challenge. There will still be rescues.

Not to beat this to death, but saying that "there will still be rescues" or that people still smoke sets the bar way too high. No one thinks that everyone will heed warning signs (or labels). The goal is to significantly reduce the incidence of problems.

There is abundant evidence that anti-smoking campaigns (which were, of course, much more than warning labels) from the 1960s on contributed to a huge reduction in smokers. In 1965, 43% of Americans smoked. Today it's 21%. Smoking remains the leading preventable cause of death in the US (438,000 annually), but it could easily be twice as bad.

So, the RMRU needn't worry -- we won't put them out of business, but we can probably get them a few extra nights of sleep.

[guest]

post edited

[DancesWithTheMountains]

Hi everyone,
Jack and I have often thought about putting a sign at the 5000 ft. area
to warn anyone going pass this point in the winter or when snow is present that they may face some very dangerous conditions and that
if they choose to continue they will be responsible for the costs of any
rescue. We have thought about calling ourselves, "The Trail Keepers".
I think it might also be a good idea for those of us who run into
these hikers that insist on going up, to get their names and then call
the Ranger Station and warn them that some hikers may be coming
up and that these hikers were warned about the dangers. Once the
hiker continues after being warned both verbally and with the sign, it
then becomes the fault of the hiker and his/her responsibility to pay
for any rescue attempt.
I don't know of any other way to stop these idiots. I'm just not happy
about the fact that this will cause us to lose the use of the Skyline Trail.
Happy Trails
Doreen